So what caused you to have doubts in the first place?

by nicolaou 106 Replies latest jw friends

  • WTWizard

    Aside the way they broke their promises (as I previously cited), there were inconsistencies everywhere. First, the "complete donation" arrangement. They told us that we were supposed to put money to donate for the littera-trash upon picking it up, and then putting whatever we got when we placed it (or adding our own money if we didn't get a donation). What smacked of a blatant scam was that they told us that it was not double donating, when in fact you are paying for the product twice.

    They also talked from the platform about the "Shibboleth" test. This meant that we had better keep up on the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger's interpretations on stupid things and the tiny differences between them. Most were exactly the same thing, save for a slight wording difference invented by the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. I saw it as a complete waste of time to study such confusing material that obviously and blatantly made no difference. How can I be declared wicked for not knowing the difference between two deals or classes that I am not even involved with?

    Then there was the marriage issue. The Bible talks about someone that was without a marriage mate, and would have something better than kids--himself. Another mathematical impossibility. The hounders took that as I was supposed to do more than myself plus kids, which is a blatant impossibility (OK, maybe not--had they let me have my sexual way, I might not have turned apostate). There simply is no way someone can do more than himself, plus any children he might bear.

    Also along the marriage issue, Paul stated that if they must do it, then let them go ahead and marry. But it would be better if they didn't--a blatant testimony of how grudgingly Jehovah was going along with it. He didn't want people to be satisfied, but grudgingly went ahead and permitted it. Another phrase to qualify it was "and if that's the way things should take place..." That is just another phrase to mean "and if we cannot find some specious reason to bust up anything or do something to make it impossible for the people to find the opposite sex" or "and if there is absolutely no way Jehovah can start His Second Dark Ages any other way". That put the biggest nail in the coffin of my belief in the whole Bible. Nice going, Paul! I bet Jesus would not have said that himself.

    The specious reasons for pioneering. If Jehovah can determine that you could stay out a few extra minutes, or cut back on your means of living to make room for field circus, you die. That is the essence of so many parts on the Circus Meetings. Grand Boasting Session parts also highlight that.

    Also about field circus, all the rules. I was told that field circus is supposed to be enjoyable. In fact, it was supposed to become my Friday Night Essence (that is, the thing that dominates my desires). And then they have so many petty rules. How are you supposed to enjoy something if someone is always telling you every little thing you are to do? Dressing as they feel appropriate for the weather is one thing (I had a better than normal tolerance for cold). Having the collar button done up in the hottest weather. No sliding on the ice. Having to maintain a predetermined pace for walking while out in field circus. A white dress shirt. Having a T-shirt under a white shirt while in hot weather, without the suit coat (yes, the tie was still required). Petty rules that distracted from any possible fun. And I am supposed to enjoy that?

    Every time I drew close to anyone, they custom made rules to bust it up. Once, I drew close to a family with several children, the youngest of which was extremely intelligent and into everything (and with full view and approval from the parents--which is not something that some of those hounders often end up doing in secret and away from the parents). I would let them play with toys designed to stimulate their intelligence, draw with colored pens and pencils, and search my bag for candies. All of which the hounders promptly banned (at that, the father of those children was not in favor of--the parents actually appreciated my helping those children, particularly the youngest, to satisfy their need of expression).

    Along the same lines, they attempted to assign me to a group that I was supposed to draw close to. This is not something Jesus would have taught (he would want me to continue with the children I was trying to stimulate into learning to explore). Instead, they wanted me with other men exclusively. And boys (I guess they wanted to create a problem where none previously existed). Notably, those boys did not have the drive to explore, but more to bust things up. The whole thing is what finally sealed my decision that there was nothing to gain from continued association with those cockroaches.

    The music. They had so many specious reasons for me to throw away all my music. I merely put them out of circulation. My original conductor wanted me to throw away my records to keep my house through Armageddon (it was an apartment, and not perfect for me anyway). I only took them out and set them aside, and later checked them with more of an objective view. Anything that was not bad during that examination was reinstated (they never found out; they also never found about Hotel California, which was lurking in my collection).

    Also along with the music, the specious reasons for not indulging in certain art pieces. I had a song that was about drunken brawls (that came out in 1973) that I listened to a lot then. I was only about 10 when it came out, and more associated it with a major vacation trip than anything else. It was a favorite song of mine then. It wasn't until I got the record for Christmas of 1974 that I found that it had the words "for fighting" in the title (the song was Elton John's Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting). I wore out the record in a few months. Then I got it again just before college, putting the song on tapes for listening to while there (and got it again, in quite heavy rotation, while there to make new tapes). Alcohol was liberally available there, and I did not get into any drunken brawls. So, when I came into the cancer, they told me that I would get into drunken brawls if I continued listening to it. Since when would I start getting into trouble with something I got away with for about 15 years and have problems with it now?

    Stumbling others. Along with the fun, we were supposed to give up things that were not themselves sins. This was supposedly to avoid stumbling others. How is my listening to a record in my own home, that no one else sees, going to stumble others? I don't know how on Earth I am going to get even one person to get into a drunken brawl or commit fornication by listening to a bad song in my own home, with no one else there to hear it. This also applied to so many other things, like the fuzzy dice in the car, certain holiday foods, and the like.

  • R.Crusoe

    Good points Bring the Light!

    You know - I imagine JWs kids have more moments than most of those where they are filled with questions but denied answers?

    Albeit I was not in JW cuffs as a child, I was in shackles of carers who had this notion a child does exactly as told to without even thinking of a question let alone asking one - whilst they went about all manner of business as adults! So it was in many respects as you say - filled with doubt and growing insecurity and being distanced from your peer group in school and in your neighborhood. - Never offering opportunities in the home to invite groups of friends around and develop a community for you to grow in and feel part of.

    So I can see how alienating a system of belief it is for any who cannot continue to follow its dictatorship godhead governing body!

    It turns your NOW into a lonley sad and depressing place.

    Who would not have doubts about such a regime?

    All my doubts stemmed from its claim to do the reverse of the above - and then find myself feeling like the whole charade of WT life was on a big screen with me sat alone watching it - very detached emotionally with no chance of being in, or 'feeling' part of the show!

  • Octarine Prince
    Octarine Prince

    I sensed that what I was seeing and experiencing on the congregational
    level was also happening on the national and international level.

    I was right.

    I found out, mostly through people on this site, about all of the
    cover-ups and scandals. Not just the old ones, but the newer ones like
    the UN situation.

  • LouBelle

    I had made my mind up that I was going to get back into the faith stronger than ever - prayed insisently to God, asked him to show me the truth according to thing I knew I was elbow deep in all the doctrines I once thought I knew the truth about, then 6 months later disfellowshipped.

  • ataloa

    Boy, this was a tough question. Our very first doubt? It took a long time for me to come up with it, but I think it was when I was reading an old publication. I don't remember details at all, but it was something about the stance on the war. A group of witnesses tried to reason with the slave on some issue, but just couldn't get through.

    This group fell away and, later on, it was admitted that they had been right. But according to the gb, they should have ignored their own consciences and gone along with the slave for unity! This was my first hint that there really might be no love, no humility, no fear of Jehovah.

    I always wondered what happened to those people.

  • d.boon

    On the topic of Jesus only Mediator for Anointed: I think the reasoning goes something like this, As Moses was the mediator between the nation of Israel and God and not the World and God. So Jesus is the mediator between the Spiritual Israel (those with a heavenly hope) and God and not the World and God. Of course they will more than likely throw out the words “By Extension” which is just another way of saying “By harmless misapplication of scripture”

  • Cindi_67
    I was raised in the truth and never questioned it. I did find some of the explanations about Daniel's prophecies such as the 2300 days somewhat arbitrary... But I accepted it all since we were in the truth....


    The same thing happened to me. This is the only thing I knew. Like the israelites of Bible times, I was born & raised in it, and that is what it was expected of me. I didn't questioned anything, but some things were hard for me to understand. But because it was coming from God's Org., and the FDS, it was something you had to accept, because they "know" better and they have been anointed by HOLY SPIRIT.

  • wizardca

    Was born into the Borg. The whole 1995 doctrine changed confused the heck outta me and planted the seeds of "er?". Stayed in the Borg due to family and being underage. Then a few years later started seeing MS being appointed and me being passed over. I wrote several of the talks (recently too) of those being appointed who were only doing the #2 talks. I was doing #4s and doing everything else a MS but they didn't want to appoint me. I hated going in the Field Misery. I realized that those who survive armageddon of the anointed couldnt go to heaven because that would be the rapture and we cant believe in that (see Reasoning book). I saw the way the congregation treated a sick family member of mine poorly; I was never part of the "click" ever and basically ignored but by a few people. I saw the hypocrasy of an elder intimadating a woman into having an affair with him and both got df'd. UGH.

    Oh and the clincher: I was regular selling pioneering but couldn't make the hours so I was fudging numbers big time...i wanted an education and had to i asked for personal territory (it was the craze at the time) was ignored on my request, though I think that would have kept me in the borg. When I met with the group and said I was going to no longer pioneer, they got pissy and said i was materialistic (i had bought a newer used car since my old one was dying. car was well within my budget) yet it was ok for an elder could go buy a new lexus. He wasn't materialistic but i was. That started the major downward spiral outta there. SUCH BS. :)

  • Cindi_67



    Their was a question from readers in the 1989 Watchtower pages30-31 that stated that the bible holds out two hopes for humans. One to live in a paradise earth and the other to live in heaven. The article went on to say that Jesus was the mediator of only those with a heavenly hope.

    In effect they are saying you cannot have a relationship with God or Jesus without them the faithful slave.

    Like I just replied in another thread, I was born and raised in the "truth", so many things I never questioned, of course in 1979 I was just 12 years old, and, how much can a 12 year old understand about doctrine of such magnitude?. All my life I understood that Jesus was our mediator between us and Jehovah, and never thought anything different. All these articles just went pass by me, and I guess I never studied hard enough to become aware of these little details.

    Now it got me thinking as well, another one for the basket.

  • whoknows

    Bogus chronology and creature worship (FDS). After 40 years, I finally decided to read the bible as they asked me to. I took a few weeks to read the NT in different translations along with Greek Interlinear, Wycliffe Bible Commentary, Vine's Dictionary and WT concordance. That did it for me.

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