So what caused you to have doubts in the first place?

by nicolaou 106 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    why something so universal in human behavior was never mentioned, either for good or bad, in the bible

    Actually, it is mentioned. Quite. But that's another thread altogether and one I'm not free to go into now.

    Peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • marmot
    marmot

    Sorry, I should have clarified that the watchtower doesn't admit to it being mentioned in the bible. None the articles I've ever read from the society have ever said that spanking the monkey is referenced in scripture.

  • oompa
    oompa

    Took awhile, but I read all the posts so far and will read the rest to come...very interesting. And WT Wizzard...don't hold back so much...tell us how you really feel!

    My very first doubts were weirdaties in the Old Testament....thousands of people being killed by God or for God for something someone else did wrong....weird sex crime rules...esp. a girl being raped having to marry her rapist. These were my first doubts about God being one I wanted to worship.

    My first doubts about the WT org. had to do also with weirdaties.....specifically prophecies being explained. Like a talk or meeting in Ohio, or a tract, or a magazine article for crying out loud being a specific direct fulfillment of something written in Revelation!!! Geeze already....that is insane!!!

    My last doubt....the icing on the cake that brought back any and all suppressed doubts was finding out that WTBTS altered, changed, intentionally mistranslated the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures....in many ways. But the most deceitful was adding the name Jehovah 237 times to the Greek Scriptures without ANY supporting manuscripts, and without ANY proper literary principles. No wonder we have the ONLY Bible to do this (and no the whacko J-versions don't count). That's right we have our OWN Bible since 1950, and I happen to under 50 so grew up on this toilet paper...................................oompa

    I am even irritated that nobody else has used my last doubt as one of their main ones!!!!.....Does this not matter to ANYBODY?????

    edit: fitting that I get in here right after a spanked monkey post!

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    But the most deceitful was adding the name Jehovah 237 times to the Greek Scriptures without ANY supporting manuscripts, and without ANY proper literary principles. I am even irritated that nobody else has used my last doubt as one of their main ones!!!!.....Does this not matter to ANYBODY?????

    Not to me, dear Oompa, for a couple reasons: first, all Bibles are slanted toward the beliefs of their authors/sponsors. The NWT is no different. Second, the large Reference version of the NWT (which is the one I used from the time it was released) is one of THE best bibles out there. It actually contains quite a bit of accuracy (including putting "the Lord" back in those 237 places!), but that is usually found in the footnotes... versus in the text.

    If you are still a Bible reader and want a better knowledge of what was truly in the manuscripts, etc., then the Reference Bible is invaluable; however, it shouldn't be the only Bible version you use (and you should certainly not rule out interlinear and other versions in the "original" - as close as it gets - Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek).

    Finally, it also serves to expose them for who and what they truly are... like no other publication out there.

    Peace to you!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA, who has learned, however, that if you want the TRUTH, you needn't even bother with a Bible but just go directly to the Source... and let him lead you... into all truth.

  • oompa
    oompa

    PUUUUHHHHLLLLEEEESSSSEEEE AGUEST!

    AGuest: first, all Bibles are slanted toward the beliefs of their authors/sponsors. The NWT is no different .

    Funny, even WT says the same thing, but it one thing to "slant" something, and it is quite another to "take away" a word and "add" a word Rev.22:18,19 (Moses was told the same thing btw). Especially when that happens to be THE name. I would like to think it is possible for translations to exist that had no ulterior motive. I have found some that seem to be far more accurate..........................................oompa

    Equally offensive is the Appendix 1-d slight of hand that indicates THE NAME has been restored in the Greek when quoting the Hebrew Scriptures......but makes no mention of the dozens of times it just sticks the name Jehovah in there whenever it feels like it. That escalates the crime to FRAUD!

  • Vinny
    Vinny

    So many newbies coming out of the closet on this one. Cool... and a ((((BIG WELCOME TO YOU ALL))))!!! I would have often have doubts, do a double take and shake my head when reading how the Society would apply some "anti-typical" fulfillment of scripture TO THEMSELVES. The Revelation Book study for example is FILLED with those "Modern Day Fulfillments" somehow applying to them and only them. They made me laugh at times. Other times I would literally throw my book down in disbelief. DO THEY REALLY BELIEVE THIS ABOUT THEMSELVES? Still, I managed to shake those doubts off every single time. (Probably had something to do with my chasing the "eldership" carrot)... Then one day I saw this comment after an MSNBC news article about Jehovah's Witnesses: "Wondering Why People Call The Jehovah’s Witnesse Religion A Cult? Cults Are High Control Groups. So One Has To Ask,”Is The Jehovah Witness Religion A High Control Group?” Here Is some of The Evidence On It. It Gets Ignored All The Time. But Here It Goes Again. Once The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Made A Mandate That Their Members Could Not Receive Vaccinations. If A Member Said I Do Not Agree And Received Vaccinations OR Gave Their Young Children Vaccinations They Would Be Disfellowshipped And Lose Their Entire Family. Once Disfellowshipped Not Even Your Family Can So Much As Take A Meal With You If You Go Against The Watchtower™. SOOOOOOooo, Jehovah’s Witnesses Didn’t Take Vaccinations And Some Died. Even CHILDREN Died. Then One Day The Watchtower Society Says They Have New Light™ And So Now Jehovah’s’ People May In Good Conscience Take Vaccinations. So, Then, The People AND Children Who Died Not Taking Vaccinations….Who Did They Die For? Did They Die For Jehovah? Or For The Watchtower Bible And Tract Corporation™? Did The Bible Say Not To Take Vaccinations? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate made by MEN? Although There Were Other Health Mandates I Will Skip Them And Go To Another Biggie. Organ Transplants. At One Time The Watchtower Society™ Said No Organ Transplants For Their Members. To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants Was Considered Cannibalism By The Slave Class™. If A Jehovah’s Witness Received An Organ Transplant Or Allowed Their CHILD To Receive A Life Saving Organ Transplant They Were Disfellowshipped. Shunned. Losing All Family,Friends,And A Voice In The Congregation. If A Jehovah’s Witness Questioned The Dogmatic Doctrine Of No Organ Transplants They Were Accused Of “Running Ahead Of Jehovah’s Organization”. Apostasy! Then New Light™ Comes From The Slave Class. Jehovah’s People Can Now Receive Organ Transplants. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Died Including CHILDREN. Did The GOD Say Not To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate from 12 or so fallible men sitting up in a NewYork office? Now I Will Go To Another Biggie, BLOOD. Not Whole Blood Just Fractions. Jehovah’s Witnesses Latest Medical Mandate Is No Blood. Science Develops New Treatment For Hemophiliacs Using Blood Fractions. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Hemophiliacs And Parents Of Children Who Are Hemophiliacs Whose Doctors Have Told Them About This New Treatment Call Bethel. The Watchtower Society™ Says No Blood Fractions. Even Just A Part Of The Blood Is Still Blood. It Must Be Poured Out Onto The Ground. Many Die. Many CHILDREN Die. One Day The Slave Class™ Says They Have New Light™. Jehovah’s Witnesses May Now Receive Blood Fractions. Did GOD Say Not To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? To Not Allow Your Children To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? Did These Men, Women, And CHILDREN, Die For Jehovah? Or Did They Die For The Watchtower men sitting in Brooklyn? What Would Have Happened In Any Of These Medical Mandated Cases Had The Individual Jehovah’s Witness Said,” I Am Sorry But, I Must Save My Life That IS A Gift From God. I Believe The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Is Wrong On This Point.” The Consequence For Disobedience To The Watchtower Even For Nobel Causes Is Disfellowshipment. The Loss Of Your World As You Know It. The Loss Of Your Family, Friends, And Support At The Kingdom Hall AND You Feel Are Made To Feel The Loss Of Your GOD. You Feel And Are Made To Feel As If You Are Worse Then Dead. Now Even Parents Allowed Their Children To Die (Be Killed) By Dogmatic Medical Mandate from men sitting in a Brooklyn office. So Is This A High Control Group? You Answer This For Yourself. Use YOUR God Given Conscience. It Is Yours. It Is A Gift. Nothing God Gives Is Broken No Matter What You Have Been Taught. You Do Not Need Any Man To Tell You What To Do On Any Righteous Matter. God Is Taking Care Of You.Listen To The Still Small Voice Of Our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit. I Did Not Touch The Subject Of Whole Blood This Time,Because You Must Also Answer This For Yourself. But Look At The Record Of The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™. They Have Been Deadly Wrong Too Many Times. Do You Wish To Take The Blue Pill Or The Red? ******* I admit, after reading that and a few others similar... (One from Odrade, I later found out), I was knocked off balance from it all. But, once again, like a well trained good little JW, I just put it out of my mind for about a month. "Those were obviously some sorry Apostates anyway, right?"... I said to myself. But folks, the damage was already done. I had heard things I simply could not get out of my head. Were they true? I finally checked all those things out and yep THEY WERE ALL TRUE. The WT Society had forbidden Vaccinations and Organ Transplants previously and then after many years simply, "changed their minds". HOW CONVENIENT. It seriously damaged their credibility overall in my mind though. I then decided to put everything on the table and see what else they were wrong about. Beth Sarim, Alternative Service, False Predictions, Rape Rules, Divorce Rules, shunning those that just walk away from the religion, Strange and wacky teachings throughout their entire history and much more... and then the biggest problem for me... BLOOD. I studied the JW position on Blood from the inside out over two solid months. (Many of my conclusions on blood are posted here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/150613/1.ashx I was blown away. The JW's were WRONG ON BLOOD TODAY. Just like they were WRONG ON ALL THOSE OTHER THINGS BEFORE. HOLY COW. Bought both Ray Franz Books and learned even more that destroyed their arrogant and presumptuous, "WE ARE THE ONE TRUE FAITH" and "ALL OTHERS WILL BE DESTROYED BY GOD" nonsense. I finally disassociated just after the elders told me to agree with everything the Society teaches (just wait for light to get brighter they said), or be disfellowshipped outright. The actual letter of disassociation is posted here: http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/922/t/Letter-of-disassociation.html I then lost all JW friendships, and biz employees, family members along with was falsely labeled and shunned without doing anything wrong aside from disagreeing with current JW teachings. Which is a major sin to them. I debated for almost two years with active JW's on Beliefnet and other website locations after disassociating. It was not a pretty sight for the JW's. They kept losing every single debate on every single issue I had brought up. It was embarrassing actually. And still is when on rare occasion I jump back in. But there is nothing else to prove and I now stay focused on much more positive things. The JW's are simply not "The Truth" as many of us one time believed and as they have decieved themselves into believing today, while living in a bubble. Only the JW's think and say that about JW's. Most folks don't buy any of it.

    Vinny

  • d.boon
    d.boon

    I'm still an active member.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead
    Cindi67: But because it was coming from God's Org., and the FDS, it was something you had to accept, because they "know" better and they have been anointed by HOLY SPIRIT.

    The FDS issue struck me because I knew from my stay at Bethel and Gilead that O.S. brothers were writing many of the publications. So how was it that the FDS was feeding the domestics, if it really was the OS feeding the anointed in the field. Made no sense...

    [email protected]

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    Burn:

    The Creation book.

    I could see it was full of falsehoods.

    Any falsehood in particular? I've never given the creation book much thought, as it made sense when I read it.

    [email protected]

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead
    Cindi: But in your research, try and find other scriptures that will mention mediation between us, "the other sheep" and God.

    Have you done any research into John 10:16? In Gilead we learned the whole context of the scripture, and the Society's explanation was so convoluted it made no sense. But what Christendom says actually does make sense.

    Jesus was talking to Jews, and explaining that he was inviting them into his fold. He then explained that he had other sheep that he would invite into the Jews fold, and they would become one flock, under one shepherd.

    Well, in 36 CE Cornelius was baptized, and Gentiles began to be welcomed into the Jews fold. In context, then, what makes more sense? If Jesus was telling Jews, come into my fold, and some other sheep will come into it in the year 1935, does that make sense? But it does make sense that he told them that the Jews were coming into his fold, and then the Gentiles will be added in a few years. This is scriptural: Eph Ch 4:

    11Therefore keep bearing in mind that formerly YOU were people of the nations as to flesh; "uncircumcision" YOU were called by that which is called "circumcision" made in the flesh with hands— 12 that YOU were at that particular time without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel and strangers to the covenants of the promise, and YOU had no hope and were without God in the world. 13 But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. 14 For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. 15 By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; 16 and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself. 17 And he came and declared the good news of peace to YOU, the ones far off, and peace to those near, 18 because through him we, both peoples, have the approach to the Father by one spirit.

    19

    Certainly, therefore, YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God,

    Behold, the other sheep!!!!

    [email protected]

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