From the Book of Enoch

by Aleman 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    There is more verifable evidence; evidence that just recently has been declassified, that there are alien life forms than there is information to sustain the claim of "angels" and "demons" and "god".

    Where is heaven located? I can point up to the sky and show you where other planets are located.

    Is it possible that the angels/demons are things we call them as humans because the true accounts were too much for a species that have been reared to think of themselves as a superior species? Here's a tidbit: we are not.

    In the next 10 years it will become a truism that we will not be able to escape and our whole idea of religion, aliens/demons and gods will be totally turned on its head.

    I don't have all the answers, but I am not afraid to face the hard questions...

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I still find pretty amazing that people who are fed, and enjoy, fiction of all kinds daily (through TV, movies, novels and so on) are unable to deal with it reasonably as soon as religion is involved.

    Historical fiction and science fiction are OK, but there is no room for any positive appraisal of religious fiction as such. Somehow it seems that a religious text has to be either literally true, or the deformation of some actual event (even including aliens), or "just bullsh*t".

    With such a frame of mind it would be better indeed not to venture in Ancient Near Eastern texts (and that includes the "Bible").

  • Aleman
    Aleman

    Hey Layla33,

    Again - As Dr. Evil would say, "R-Right"

    Aliens from what planet? Planet of the apes? or planet of uranius or your-anus?

    -Aleman

  • Aleman
    Aleman

    The scripture continues;

    1 Parable the first. When the congregation of the righteous shall be manifested; and sinners be judged for their crimes, and be troubled in the sight of the world; 2 When righteousness shall be manifested (38) in the presence of the righteous themselves, who will be elected for their good works duly weighed by the Lord of spirits; and when the light of the righteous and the elect, who dwell on earth, shall be manifested; where will the habitation of sinners be? And where the place of rest for those who have rejected the Lord of spirits? It would have been better for them, had they never been born.

    3 When, too, the secrets of the righteous shall be revealed, then shall sinners be judged; and impious men shall be afflicted in the presence of the righteous and the elect. 4 From that period those who possess the earth shall cease to be powerful and exalted. Neither shall they be capable of beholding the countenances of the holy; for the light of the countenances of the holy, the righteous, and the elect, has been seen by the Lord of spirits.

    5 Yet shall not the mighty kings of that period be destroyed; but be delivered into the hands of the righteous and the holy. 6 Nor thenceforwards shall any obtain commiseration from the Lord of spirits, because their lives in this world will have been completed. - 1 Enoch 38:1-6

    -Aleman

  • ringo5
    ringo5

    I still find pretty amazing that people who are fed, and enjoy, fiction of all kinds daily (through TV, movies, novels and so on) are unable to deal with it reasonably as soon as religion is involved.

    Historical fiction and science fiction are OK, but there is no room for any positive appraisal of religious fiction as such. Somehow it seems that a religious text has to be either literally true, or the deformation of some actual event (even including aliens), or "just bullsh*t".

    With such a frame of mind it would be better indeed not to venture in Ancient Near Eastern texts (and that includes the "Bible").

    I'm surprised for a smart guy you find it amazing. Then again I'm amazed that people use the words "reasonable" and "religion" in the same sentence. Those two words currently are diametrically opposed.

    I'd love a world where if there was religion, it would be viewed a nice distraction to everyday life or even perish the thought, a way to connect humans to humans, not humans to an imaginary man in the sky. Or perhaps if it was viewed as fictional entertainment and a window into the mind of ancient humankind, but unfortunately the majority (if not then a powerful minority) believe their religion is not fiction at all, thank you very much. If the majority of people lumped religious writings in with other works of fiction we'd all be better off to say the least, but I don't see that happening any time soon....
  • Aleman
    Aleman

    8 After this I besought the angel of peace, who proceeded with me, to explain all that was concealed. I said to him, Who are those whom I have seen on the four sides, and who words I have heard and written down? He replied, The first is the merciful, the patient, the holy Michael. 9 The second is he who presides over every suffering and every affliction of the sons of men, the holy Raphael. The third, who presides over all that is powerful, is Gabriel. And the fourth, who presides over repentance, and the hope of those who will inherit eternal life, is Phanuel. These are the four angels of the most high God, and their four voices, which at that time I heard. - 1 Enoch 40:8,9

    -Aleman

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    ringo,

    Lol. I tried hard to avoid the adjective "American" in my first post... but that's the real issue I guess: as I perceive it, the inability to reconcile "fiction" and "religion" is basically an American thing -- even though it may be spreading. And believe me, from a European perspective it still does sound strange. The prevalence of the dumbest, shallowest type of religious belief as "literal" and "realistic" your side of the pond prevents any understanding of Eastern storytelling for most people under the influence of American popular culture (except scholars and those interested in scholarly literature) -- and this applies to both "believers" and "unbelievers".

  • Aleman
    Aleman

    1 After this I beheld the secrets of the heavens and of paradise, according to its divisions; and of human action, as they weight it there in balances. I saw the habitations of the elect, and the habitations of the holy. And there my eyes beheld all the sinners, who denied the Lord of glory, and whom they were expelling from there, and dragging away, as they stood there; no punishment proceeding against them from the Lord of spirits. 2 There, too, my eyes beheld the secrets of the lightning and the thunder; and the secrets of the winds, how they are distributed as they blow over the earth: the secrets of the winds, of the dew, and of the clouds. There I perceived the place from which they issued forth, and became saturated with the dust of the earth. 3 There I saw the wooden receptacles out of which the winds became separated, the receptacle of hail, the receptacle of snow, the receptacle of the clouds, and the cloud itself, which continued over the earth before the creation of the world. 4 I beheld also the receptacles of the moon, whence they came, whither they proceeded, their glorious return, and how one became more splendid than another. I marked their rich progress, their unchangeable progress, their disunited and undiminished progress; their observance of a mutual fidelity by a stable oath; their proceeding forth before the sun, and their adherence to the path allotted them, (42) in obedience to the command of the Lord of spirits. Potent is his name for ever and for ever.

    5 After this I perceived, that the path both concealed and manifest of the moon, as well as the progress of its path, was there completed by day and by night; while each, one with another, looked towards the Lord of spirits, magnifying and praising without cessation, since praise to them is rest; for in the splendid sun there is a frequent conversion to blessing and to malediction. 6 The course of the moon’s path to the righteous is light, but to sinners it is darkness; in the name of the Lord of spirits, who created a division between light and darkness, and, separating the spirits of men, strengthened the spirits of the righteous in the name of his own righteousness. 7 Nor does the angel prevent this, neither is he endowed with the power of preventing it; for the Judge beholds them all, and judges them all in his own presence. - 1 Enoch 41:1-7

    Are you all ready to get judged? Individually will you all get judged by the Almighty and pacient God of all, including all who is evil. He created them and he will judge them by the deeds or lack of each and every one of them.

    -Aleman

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    Aleman - are you related to Rooster who also posts cut and paste with minimal explanation on various levels of engagement?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Narkissos...There seems to be a common failure to realize that literary modes of expression such as myth and fiction can be used as a vehicle for expressing certain social and subjective truths; too often they are pitted against each other as diametrically opposite, i.e. truth OR fiction, such that fiction must necessarily be what is FALSE. Yet it is story where, for instance, some of complexities and nuances and contradictions of race could best be grasped (as opposed to a non-fictional description of it).

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