Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

by reniaa 383 Replies latest jw experiences

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    I looked in COC raymond Franz book at your request it's ok but I'm not sure it would effect me like others, as finding that JW's is an organisation like any other christian one with leadership having to make hard sometimes very wrong decisions costing lives has not surprised me, the policy for this was set with moses when he handed over decision making to elders from the twelve tribes of israel, this also must have included doctinal policy as there are always grey areas, even more so today when we don't live in bible times and many issues have to be decided that didn't exist, It would nice to think that they had a 'telephone' to God to tell them how to decide in each case and decision but we only have the bible and prayer I suppose. I'm glad i'm not a leader, Governments have to make political decisions everyday that can lead the thousands of deaths thats a big responsibility. I think maybe the witnesses should have been more honest and open in how their governing body works.

    I wouldn't have minded a talk to raymond franz though he sounds an interesting person.

    This is the problem guys...i'm not dissilusioned with Jw's my exploration of other Christian faiths had led me to realise that problems/failings are similar for all of them that got established.

    I have a problem with the blood issue because jesus's sabbath scripture about saving lives makes a good principle for that being wrong.

    Using jehovah yes it's not jahweh but is that better? you say other christian faith use it but they all say jesus is God with exception of unitarian church, and so most prefer to use the "Lord", I find it weird that most modern bibles have taken the God's name out of psalm 83-18 so it doesn't even make any sense any more. I have been doing exstensive research and bible reading and to be honest it has left me not a little confused. Possibly why my sister directed me to your site because she wasn't sure if it was my unhappiness or because my knew interest in God after 10 years, I don't even know myself.

    Everyone makes a lot of sense in your replies, that a lot of you said councilor and I only just recently started therapy makes me realise that a lot of my current issues are emotional in origin and you guys have cemented that opinion.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Much good advice is given here. This is not an easy problem to solve. I have felt similar at times - the Jw's look glistening white compared to the 'world' - if you look thru the Wt glasses of thought that is. Since you seem to believe the Bible yet - didn't Jesus tell us that the most wicked would appear to be clean, but inside they were just 'whitewashed graves'? Just something to consider.

    One little point to ponder though: If you go back, there will be likely a lot of questions about what you did while 'you were out'. If they find that you have committed 'sins', it would be likely for you to be disfellowshipped for them. Then you will really get to see just how loving this bunch is - likely these 'good Christians' will shun you, avoid you, until reinstatement. The religion is mostly about judgement, conviction, and execution of it's many rules of conduct. That is the control lever they use. Just be prepared that they will not welcome you back with open arms after all.

    I really wish you well. I have gone thru periods of similar thought. I knew nothing but the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses for my first 48 years. It is not easy to find, build, continue relationships with people 'outside'. In the organization the friendships are autopilot. We all believe the same thing, do the same tasks, keep the same hopes. It is more like living among a tribe of robots with identical programming. I have decided that one or two good friends is far better than a hundred robotic ones.

    Keep us up to date in your struggle. You - realise it or not - have just found a bunch of strangers on this forum willing to accept and help you, without the control. See - there are some very good people out here in the 'world'?

    Jeff

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    I do recognise 'my people picker' is very damaged as someone called it, my therapist said I am drawn to those that don't want me subconscously,

    Your therapist is a smart person. You realize the Jehovah's Witnesses don't really want you either? Not unless they can count you as a bible study. The "welcome" is not quite as warm if you admit you are a returnee. They can't count the time. Why would you pick those who are aloof? Perhaps to prove by your extreme effort that you are worthy? Perhaps to prove to that first person who rejected you that you are worthy? The JW's are set up with a proven formula of acceptance. Do all that they ask and you will eventually be accepted. My husband reinstated for very similar motives. It took him six years. I won't go in to detail on the many sacrifices he made along the way to earn that (temporary) acceptance.

    Here are my individual responses to some of your reasons.

    1/ I've found great people and great churches out here in the "world". I wonder what is holding you back from discovering them? I've met nasty people, too. I avoid them. There are nice people in the Witnesses too. I just won't be bound to the strictures they have voluntarily put on themselves. The worst is the endless meetings and study. For what? In my own church I was encouraged to pick a ministry that suited my talents, and my commitment is just once a week. I am very fulfilled working with the little ones.

    2/ There's a fella in my hubby's congregation who is probably right up your alley. He left his common-law partner and her child in order to complete his studies with the Witnesses. He is very lonely, and the local single Witness ladies are not interested in him. He is quite at a loss how to start a relationship.

    3/ There are silly in-laws everywhere.

    4/ This has been covered already. Are they honest friendships if they did not extend past your attendance at the meetings? I'm not a drinker and I have lots of friends. I'm wondering where you are going to pick them.

    5/ Your current boyfriend is a hypocrite and to answer him ask him how he is going to answer on judgement day for his actions?

    6/Well, you are not an athiest then.

    So here I am feeling like the prodigal daughter and thinking being among warm-hearted if strict people who will accept me back and give me a sense of community again that I haven't seen in any other christian faith for all I've looked..

    I think you are riding on some selected memories. It might help if you do try and go back, with eyes wide open, to see that the Witnesses are as flawed as everyone else.

    I guess you could say I miss God.

    ...and you keep trying to find Him in people. Why not try and center yourself a bit, going on a personal quest of discovery?

    http://www.interviewwithgod.com/psalm23.htm

    Questions I have asked myself recently are...if there is a God which faith would he be using?

    Why not all of them? Perhaps each of us is a poor reflection, another angle, of the purer whole.

    Would my children be more protected by being in a faith?

    Well, my daughter and I are firm believers in this. I continue as a sunday school teacher today because of that belief. I don't think it protects you from all trouble. Both my son and my daughter have made mistakes and faced hard choices. I think the difference is their reaction to adversity. They humbly accept their part. Then, knowing that absolutely nothing could separate them from God's or their mother's love, they pick themselves up and learn from their mistakes.

    (this is a real thought although I think I'd have to see figures of whether being in a faith makes much difference that way)

    http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=183

    always in the back of my mind is that one thought! you will also know maybe as ex-JW's is... why are they the only christian faith to use his name, no one has ever been able to answer that question for me

    Well, what has always bothered me is if the Witnesses are to proclaim YHWH's name, the only respectful thing to do is to pronounce it right! "jehovah" is a seventeenth century invention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah

    It seems you have not been exposed to the same religions as I have, or to the same degree. We do use Jehovah's name on occasion in our worship, it is certainly not banned.

    I've always thought that when God asked that we do honorable things in his name, or his name be justified, is that He meant that we are to honor him. Names were significant in the Jewish tradition. A man who could carry his name through his sons in a sense carried on his "name" or his influence beyond his own life. One could honor or dishonor his name by your own acts. In the same way, I believe we honor God's "name" by what we do, not by rote repetition.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Life

    http://www.jewfaq.org/jnames.htm

    I hope I have not come across as harsh or judgemental. I am interested in the results of your quest. I would hope to save you from pain by trying to find comfort through the Watchtower organization again.

  • kerj2leev
    kerj2leev
    Sounds like the wt org would be a good crutch for you.

    Exactly, if that is what she needs right now, so be it! It is her happiness, it's her decision. There are many people who are truely happy being a JW, Mormon, Catholic, Muslim...ect. If people didn't need such a community then there wouldn't be billions involved with them.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    1/ All the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, I've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.

    And I've seen all the supposed good things that are supposed to be 'typical' or 'unique' about people in 'the truth' in normal ('worldly') people too.

    2/ I got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, I got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later I am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and I was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.

    To be blunt, these things are not the fault of 'the world'. They are things you did and situations you got into. Whether they were all your fault is not the point. Not all non-JWs get into these situations, and such reasoning is not an appropriate reason to fall back on a religion as an emotional crutch.

    3/ Parents-in-law! I have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, I had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.

    Your parents-in-law employing some sense of shunning does not make its use by JWs any more appropriate.

    4/ I miss the honest friendships of the truth, I had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after I left but I was determined to fade so moved away completely, but I find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( I've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.

    Shunning is obviously painful, and the main reason they employ it is to put pressure on disgruntled members to stay in, and for those who leave to come back. If they genuinely cared for you, where are they now? You are beginning with a preconceived indoctrinated notion that 'worldly' people aren't as friendly, which isn't going to help. And the JW 'us and them' attitude certainly won't be helping you either. Do you really imagine that referring to people disparagingly as 'wordly' (or the underlying attitude) is going to help you make close friends?

    5/ My recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, I thought why not find out about it, Harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when I said to him how does he clear that with God, he replies "As long as I repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.

    Flaws in the morals of one person, or indeed an entire religion, do not make JWs better than everyone else. The 'witness trained conscience' ideal is another manifestation of the 'us and them' attitude.

    6/ I recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, It wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their Religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in God, It's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it. They said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and I thought "well if this is reality I've had enough of it"

    It may be comforting to have a false hope, and losing that false hope may result in a temporary feeling of emptiness. It's pretty arrogant to call people 'worldly', and then wonder why it's so hard to make friends.

    So here I am feeling like the prodigal daughter and thinking being among warm-hearted if strict people who will accept me back and give me a sense of community again that I haven't seen in any other christian faith for all I've looked, has gotta be better than being shoved and shunned and used by people who have stopped caring for each other and only think of themselves.

    Can you really honestly talk about those 'warm-hearted' people and use 'shunning' in the same sentence??

    And all of this aside, there remains the fact that the core JW doctrines are based on numerology that is not supported by the bible, which can be backed up in detail.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I thought also I would make a quick point about references to the "battered wife syndrome". I believe the posters are suggesting that you continue to return to situations where you are comfortable; that is, where you are treated with less than respect. I don't think the posters are suggesting that this started with your first abusive partner but rather with the Witnesses.

    The thought then is that you won't improve the situation by returning to the origin of the abuse.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    I'm not quite sure how your site works on the copy and post thing yet, t makes it hard to reply to you all individually

    My quest started recently but I think unhappiness was the motivator and I have some current reality that will put it on hold for a while (my baby is due in 2 weeks).

    Would God use all faiths? hmmm I think the witnesses get this viewpoint of 'there can be only one' directly from the bible, Certainly even with jesus it was a case of give up being a jew to become a christian, and the scriptures in the bible do seem to indicate 'One chosen people' and as someone said thats probably why most faiths particularily Christian ones are so 'we are the true faith'. Although there are some modern ones that do say all 'roads' lead to God now.

    Lol I've gone google mad on faiths recently, Definately eye-opening when I looked into mormons and scientology :s

    Witnesses definately aren't perfect, If I try to close off my JW trained mind and view them clinically (really hard thing to do) I find them sufferring from similar faults of the jewish faith at jesus's time, sometimes it's too easy to make the rules more important than the person.

    I'm still not sure they would DF me wouldn't that be against the principle of the 'prodigal son' son text? Does anyone know a particular case of anyone that has come back after a number of years confessed past sins done in that time away but no longer and then promptly been DF'd for them?

    You said about the guy that left a common-law partner and child when he became a witness why didn't he marry them instead?

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    In my defense I shouldn't have used 'worldly' in my original post, It was unthinking, I certainly don't use it in my everyday life, I was just trying to find a way of expressing my dissilutionment with the unfettered free life of living without religion in the last 10 years, that it seems to have come at a heavy price?

    Am I at fault for all my mistakes? that seems a harsh judgement even if I am a bad person-picker surely some blame can be put on the current practise of people being encouraged to go after money and self-indulgence. Would I have been treated so badly if my partners felt some guilt over their actions towards me?

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    Would God use all faiths? hmmm I think the witnesses get this viewpoint of 'there can be only one' directly from the bible.

    I think you might benefit from less google and more bible. Where exactly in the bible does it say there can be only one? There were twelve tribes, after all. God's little discussion with Peter about what is unclean and clean forced that young Jew to admit that the good news might be for all nations, not just Isreal.

    Does anyone know a particular case of anyone that has come back after a number of years confessed past sins done in that time away but no longer and then promptly been DF'd for them?

    In our particular case, my husband was not DF'd but rather put on restriction and literally years of extra study. Until they were convinced he was truly converted.

    You said about the guy that left a common-law partner and child when he became a witness why didn't he marry them instead?

    Well, I haven't asked him about his motives but I suspect he considered them a hindrance to his spirituality. She was not interested in converting.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Oh, P.S. the fella who left his common-law wife, the child was from a previous relationship. So perhaps he considered his ties a little lighter.

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