by LouBelle 110 Replies latest jw friends
Actually, BA, I don't know why you bring Finkelstein and Silberman to this thread.
I also read differing archaeologist's and apologetic replies to the points Finkelstein and Silberman make. Have you?
Not all evidence I use is taken from their book and, yes, I do read contrary views as I don't agree with all of their statements. How naive of you to think otherwise.
Currently reading Keith Whitelam's The Invention of Ancient Israel. Do you have an opinion on it?
Ian
Hi Burn:
Thankfully, science, and the scientific mind, are always ready to revise their theories in the light of new evidence!
Something we agree on
Ian
....
may you have peace!
You state:
this requires something from the deity you're talking bout. "He", as you call it, should have all the means to show us it exists.
Again, I say to you that He DID show us... and DOES... to this day. The "ball," however, is now in our "court" to SEE what... or, rather, WHOM... He has shown us... and LISTEN to that One.
May you hear... and get the sense of that.
Peace to you.
A slave of Christ,
SA
Sigh! Thank you. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Your servant, and a slave of Christ,
SA
The greatest of love and peace to you!
I know/believe we should put off the flesh...it's hard to do...
Please forgive me for responding (I understand your comment did not necessarily invite a response), but I just want to say that, actually, putting off the flesh is NOT the hard part: having the FAITH to put off the flesh... is the hard part. That really is the bottom line of everything the Christ taught: that with FAITH, one pretty much can do anything, including heal the sick, resurrect the dead, move mountains... walk on water (albeit, these tasks take a little more faith than simply putting off the flesh does).
Again, peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
SA,
Just wanted to thank you for finally (to me) putting into words how you see/hear/perceive god/Jesus.
YOU... are NOT the vessel that contains you... but the BEING that the vessel contains. You could lose virtually every physical aspect of your vessel/body (save, for now, your entire head, because you could lose parts of your head)... and you would be still be you: your heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, eyes, limbs, etc., could all be removed or replaced... and yet you... would still be you. That is because who you truly ARE... has nothing to do with your FLESH. And yet, it is with your flesh that you want to see and hear God. God, however, is NOT flesh… nor is He contained in or by flesh.
I thought it was explained as well as you could describe it. I understand now exactly what you are saying. The rub is that while in this spiritual state (if you will) some feel god and some see themselves as they truly are without a deity or a god. I guess it all depends on your interpretation of the information your brain is gathering while in that ''bodiless'' state of mind. I found the following to be of interest and congruent with your comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation#Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness
Paralogous or analogous: East and West(interesting comments regarding christianity and goal of union with christ)
Mindfulness may be paralogous in Christianity through the Eastern Orthodoxhesychastic concept of nepsis which has been defined by Abbot Georgios of the monastery of St. Gregorios on Mount Athos as "vigilance of the nous and watchfulness at the gates of the heart, so that every thought that moves in it can be controlled." Nepis is practiced in Orthodox monasteries with the aid of Philokalia which contains the writings of great past neptics such as Gregory Palamas and Isaiah the Solitary. Unlike Buddhism, in such a context nepsis is a tool in the ultimate goal of greater union with Christ and is not practiced by the same methods. In a secular context, mindfulness is attracting increasing interest among western clinical psychologists and psychiatrists as a non-pharmacological means of dealing with stress, anxiety, and depressive mood states.
May you have peace!
It seems these days it's ok to be a skeptic of the Bible, but not ok to be a skeptic of what it's detractors write.
Actually, it's okay... and BEST... to be skeptical of both... as neither are... nor completely have/contain/know... the Truth.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
May you have peace!
At the outset, I want to thank you for your response, as well as ask you to not take offense at what I am about the "say," as I do not mean to offend, but to clarify, if you will permit me. I am glad to know that you are at least willing to consider what I have shared in this thread; however, I am not sure that you "understand now exactly what [I am] saying," or how I "see/hear/perceive god/Jesus." Please understand, I am NOT trying to be critical or contentious, truly; I am only trying to be honest, truthful, and accurate. So, if you can, please bear with me as I try to explain. Please note that I followed your links and read the contents; unfortunately, none of them speak to what I experience. For example:
"Christian prayer or meditation through the heart, as described in the Philokalia is a practice towards Theosis, which involves acquiring an inner stillness and ignoring the physical senses."
In my case, I am always conscious of my physical senses - I am flesh, with its blood and very aware of that fact. There is no "out of body" experience; indeed, when I am "in spirit," I do not leave my body (that would be "putting off flesh," which, although angels and other spirit beings do routinely, doesn't happen for humans until death). Rather, I enter/communicate with the spirit realm by means of what's INSIDE my physical body... ME... the real me. The "me" that, while all of its virtues AND faults may be hidden from others of flesh, is NOT hidden from anyone in the spirit realm. I enter... "naked." Open and exposed. Nothing "hidden." The good, the bad... and the ugly.
Also, there is no "meditation" involved, at all. (Actually, I don't have TIME to "meditate"... on much of anything... although I should most probably MAKE time; but my own mind just can't stay that still that long). I am not isolated, alone, secluded, etc., physically... or in my thoughts. I can be sitting with you, having a meal, talking, whatever... and still see and hear. I guess it's kind of like... being, ummmm... ambidextrous? Like how such a person can go from using left hand to right, or using both simultaneously? It is much like that: such a person, when writing with the left hand, doesn't have to stop, put down the pen... and then get into some kind of "frame of mind" in order to pick it up with the right hand and begin writing.
And prayer is almost never involved; for the most part, that is an entirely separate, different and distinct issue (which I do, but not in the manner most know of - i.e., as taught by religion, religious leaders, scholars, and others "in the know"). I don't have to be "still" or "quiet," or in some still or quiet place. I just... well... go “in”... or my Lord comes to me. (Shrugging) Either way.
Not to say that these don't work - I am no one's judge. However, my Lord has never told me that such is necessary, nor that he did it (true, he is recorded to have separated himself from his disciples in order to pray - when he chose them and the night he was arrested - but those were pretty important events which I think he wished privacy for, more than a decrease in... ummmm... "distraction').
Don't get me wrong: there are times when I do need to retreat into quiet, for my own... ummmm... well-being, my own privacy, as well as to give my Lord my undivided attention, which I believe he deserves. But I hear him regardless and without some... ummmm... ritualistic, secluded, unique "act."
Your other quote states:
“Nepis is practiced in Orthodox monasteries with the aid of Philokalia which contains the writings of great past neptics such as Gregory Palamas and Isaiah the Solitary. Unlike Buddhism, in such a context nepsis is a tool in the ultimate goal of greater union with Christ and is not practiced by the same methods.
Unfortunately, this is the result of those who heard that union with Christ is possible and then attempted to achieve such union by coming up with such "monastic" practices (i.e., if you are still, quiet, and/or read certain “writings,” you will be able to see/hear/perceive/understand God/Christ). It really can’t be done that way, however, which is why those who read about and try to follow the teachings of these (who couldn’t/can’t explain it so that others can do so, too) never quite “get there”. What’s missing? Holy spirit.
Rather than “mediate” on the Book of the Law, the Bible, or any other… ummmm… thing… “day and night,” by means of holy spirit I am with Christ… or, rather, he is with me… day… AND night. So that, rather than using something like “nepsis” or whatever to obtain a “greater union with Christ,” there is never separation… because of the UNION we already share. And that union cannot be obtained through mediation, reading certain writings, etc. It is only obtained, first, by faith, and second, by obeying his commandments… which is NOT the Old Law and are NOT burdensome. They are, for the most part:
1. Eat his flesh and drink his blood… in FAITH that it is what he says it is… “true food” and “true drink”… and can do what he says it can do (“cure” us, and “cleanse” us). He TOLD us to do it; contrarily, the WTBTS has told us that we should NOT do it (THINK about that, dear ones! Whose purpose are they serving by “shutting up the kingdom of the heavens” before you?!!!)
This is the BEGINNING of the EXERCISE of faith! If you can’t be faithful in doing this one least thing, this thing that costs you nothing but, perhaps, a few dollars every few months (for the wine and bread), and a couple minutes of your time (to give thanks and partake of it)… how can you be entrusted with what is “much”??
2. Show love, mercy and forgiveness to all, including those of my flesh and particularly those considered my enemies, and judge NO one
You CANNOT claim to be joined to Christ, no matter whether you eat or drink, or read the entire Bible, Koran, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc., backward and forward 10 times each… a overstep this commandment. It is HERE that those saying, “Lord, Lord…” fail. Utterly. It is HERE that they show themselves to be “false” prophets and “false” christs. They are HYPOCRITES… possessing “leaven”… “whitewashed graves”… and therefore, “unclean.”
3. Exercise faith in what he says is the TRUTH… starting with himself as being that very entity… and what he tells and shows you as to what is true about this world… and the spirit realm (which is how I know the things I share here – he tells me; I don’t read it somewhere first, including in the Bible. It is AFTER he has shown or told me, and I exercise FAITH that what he told/showed me IS true… that he shows me where it is “written.” And then, NOT because I didn’t believe him – I certainly did – but for those who still need to SEE it, in writing…)
4. Follow him, wherever he goes, even if you don’t quite understand, and do what he directs you to do
His direction has been (1) to simply give whatever he tells me to of MINE… whether it be money, food, clothing, shelter, a job, a ride, my time… whatever… to whomever he tells me to give it… regardless of what I personally would want to do; (2) to give whatever he tells me to of HIS… what he tells and shows me…to whomever he tells me to give it… regardless of what I would personally want to do; and (2) to go where and/or do what he tells me when he tells me (which has literally saved my life, more than once), including posting here. All of these, without thinking about it, questioning it, or doubting it. Say “Here I am, send me!” to whomever, for whatever… and then do “just so.”
Anyway, I felt it was important for me to clarify that what you’ve posted here is NOT what I experience, so that those who truly want to know won’t be misled. That is what often happens when the effort to clarify is not made, when no one cares enough to “bother,” so that people are left to believe the misconception. I thank you for indulging me and, again, hope that you are not offended.
The greatest of peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
I once read a book....I can't remember the title, nor the author.....( I know...real helpful huh...)anyways, the author was agnostic, and an accomplished physcisist (sp) ...He used a law called 'The law of specificity'...which basically says... something is so complicated,and 'specific', that the only way it could come about by chance it would take x amount of years.....he used the human dna....and came to the conclusion that for something as complicated, and specific as the human dna to come about by chance.....the universe as we know it would have to be a WHOLE LOT OLDER..... ...... he came to the conclusion that there must have been some sort of intelligent hand involved in creation....he called it 'Logos'...For us to just have evolved, the universe is just not old enough.....even monkeys shakin boxes haven't had enough time..... I am still an agnostic....but it does make ya think......comments anyone? Passive suicide. I've seen the point argued that given the age of the sun and the earth that there would not have been enough time for us to evolve. If everything had a begining the big bang there is a time frame and I've seen people crunch the numbers and argue evolution from an amoemba is not possible. To my eyes I dont believe the bible but evolution takes as much belief so there has to be another explination. One thing for sure every one here will know the answer in the next one hundred years. Every hundred years theres all new people. keep saying that over and over you might think about reincarnation. I dont belive in anything, I just process data.
