Who on this Board would love to get rid of Organized Religion?

by restrangled 122 Replies latest jw friends

  • PEC

    r. it is going to get worse, before it gets better. Woohoo, 2008 is upon us, less than 10 weeks to the California primary.


  • SickofLies

    I would like to see organized religion go away, but I would strong fight any attempts to force it to go away.

    For better or worse the majority of people are religious in one form or another, although not to the extent as claimed by some people here. According to the most reliable survey's the top ten belief systems in the world are

    1. Christianity: 2.1 billion
    2. Islam: 1.5 billion
    3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
    4. Hinduism: 900 million
    5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
    6. Buddhism: 376 million
    7. primal-indigenous: 300 million
    8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
    9. Sikhism: 23 million
    10. Juche: 19 million

    I would not think to try and tell over 5 billion people how to live their lives. What I would like to see is a better system for educating people and teaching them about the source of these beliefs, that all these religions can be traced back to very human origins and that they were all influenced by earlier religions. (or at least christianity and islam are).

    I would also like to change the way people think about religions, I would like to see religions viewed in the same light as psychics or astrologers. I don't think they should be exempt from taxes either.

    That's my two cents.

  • LittleToe

    As I wrote on another thread:

    For those who think of all religion as merely a cult they should probably also examine their judicial systems, education systems, parental mores and TV/Movie regulatory mechanisms. Everything in life is designed to regulate us socially to an acceptable "norm". Religion is only one facet of that, but one that many people find useful psychologically, emotionally and socially.

    As with totalitarian political regimes, there are extreme versions of religion. The thing most of us here hold in common is that we've been exposed to one of those extremes. I guess that it would be understandable for someone to mistrust authority if they came from a country that had suffered a dictatorship, but it doesn't necessarily follow that their opinions about all governments are unbiased and realistic. Likewise with ourselves. All governments and religions have faults, but all are not the same.

    Just my 2p

  • serotonin_wraith
    judicial systems, education systems, parental mores and TV/Movie regulatory mechanisms

    ...can all be criticized and debated openly without people getting their knickers in too much of a twist.

    All governments and religions have faults, but all are not the same.

    All religions are based on irrational ideas for which there is no proof. That's bad enough.

  • LittleToe
    ...can all be criticized and debated openly without people getting their knickers in too much of a twist.

    As can religion, in most civilised countries...

    All religions are based on irrational ideas for which there is no proof.

    As are many of the standards upon which we base our lives e.g. video ratings reducing an adolescents tendancy to violence, ten years being an adequate sentence for manslaughter but twenty years for grand larceny, etc, etc, etc...

    That's bad enough.

    Bad enough for what? Bad enough for you to want to curb their personal choices to congregate and discuss a philosophy of common interest? People will think their own thoughts, regardless of how misguided you may think them to be. They will also find a way to discuss them with like-minded individuals. Its a very human condition...

    Towards those who brandish broad-brush generalisation and express a desire to restrict personal liberties and freedoms I just shake my head in wonder. Did we learn nothing from being in a high-control group?

  • nicolaou
    The more I read this thread, the more it scares me. If I had started a thread: "Who on this Board would love to get rid of Atheists?" I'd be rightly condemned. Granted, organized religion has, at times, failed mankind. Proposing that we should get rid of organized religion is proposing a hate crime, IMO. Stalin and Lenin are not heroes in my book.

    cabasilas: You've made a basic error in assuming that religion and religious believers are the same thing. This thread was not titled 'Who on this Board would love to get rid of Religious Believers'. If it were your point would be valid. It is not a hate crime to propose the dismantling of institutions - it's an idea that can be argued for or against. Personally I'd love to see organised religion wither and die but I wouldn't take steps to limit freedom of choice. If people want to live lives of delusion that's up to them - the point at which we must intervene is when harm is being done to others. Men like the Judge who recently allowed a 14 year old child to end his life based on cult indoctrination from infancy need to be educated and challenged. Religious practises like circumcision (male and female), gender discrimination, homophobia and shunning should certainly be gotten 'rid of'. The religious jerks who want to keep them . . . . well they're safe enough I'm afraid.

  • Gordy

    Quite often the Pastor of the Pentecostal church I attend has said that "organised religion" has been the worse thing for the Christian faith.

  • serotonin_wraith

    LT, who said anything about stopping people being religious?

    And if they kept it to themselves I would have less of a problem with it. Unfortunately, they feel they have to 'share' it.

    We get to debate these things here, but even online there are always those who come along complaining that religious beliefs should be left alone. I'm not sure if you assumed I wanted to outlaw religion or something- I don't.

  • Zico

    'Unfortunately, they feel they have to 'share' it'

    Serotonin, it's human nature to want to share things that people think is good. You've dedicated many of your posts on this board to debates with Christians, and I even read one comment about deconverting people. Why is this? Just my guess, so maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to think religious beliefs are a complete waste of time (or even a life?) and that an atheist lifestlye is best? Aren't you 'sharing' your beliefs because you think they're good, or, better? And that would be ok, 'cos that's a part of your human nature, but to criticise others for doing the same from a different perspective... seems contradictory to me.

  • serotonin_wraith

    Zico, if I change the name of the god in question, you'll probably see what I mean.

    Let's say everyone believed in Horus. Parents taught their kids to believe in Horus before they could think for themselves, leaders of the world prayed to Horus for political guidance, Horus believers held back science and discriminated against certain groups. Perhaps you'd want to say something then, at the very least to try and get humanity to stop believing in a mythical god.

    Being an atheist says nothing about what I do believe.

    I also used inverted commas around 'share', because very often religious parents indoctrinate children and act as if other faiths (or atheists) don't have a say. Like the Golden Compass idiocy - preaching, bullying and trying to boycott something they don't agree with, and trying to get others to go along with them. I limit my criticism to words on a computer screen. You won't have seen any atheists trying to boycott Chronicles of Narnia or Passion of the Christ. Our sharing of views came to commenting on the films, not mass email alerts and time devoted to us on the news channels. Let's just say they're a lot more forceful in their 'sharing'.

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