Hello everyone, first post.

by Frjprice 108 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lloyd Braun
    Lloyd Braun

    Mr. Price,

    I do not think you gave my questions any real direct answers, you just sort of side stepped a lot of them, which shows you still have those JW qualities lingering around.

    You also missed my point that I did not refer to the typical child father relationship between a paternal man and his son. I am referring to the very express idea that Rabbi Yeshua was implementing which is that we are not to address one in a religious piety with that title of Father. He used a very specific Greek element there, addressing disciples. When a Rabbi in the first century took on disciples, it was common Torah knowledge (from the actual written Torah, not the oral) that only Yahweh is "Father" (pater) to a man. This is why way back when a "man leaves his mother and father".

    G3962

    pat?´? pate¯r

    pat-ayr'

    Apparently a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.

    That is what he means. Joseph and others were not high priests. You are missing the general conception and inherent pragmatism here badly. Study more on this. It's pretty simple. You have taken a title upon yourself that really doesn't belong to you, unless you have literal children. If you are claiming to be a person in position of religious authority, you cannot be called "Father" is what Yeshua is relaying clearly. This has nothing to do with humble meek ones who want to "be a father" to someone else. You are however, in a position of headship in a church, therefore it is totally improper to be called "Father" when there is but One in that position according to the synoptic Matthew.

    As far as Paul and his letters go, I do not accept them as actual revelations from God. I pretty much stick with the synoptics alone, as they have not been tainted by the Constantinian influences of Babylonian and other Scythian or Hellenistic view points. Paul is really just a spy for Rome actually. If you notice, he teaches against the practices of eating clean meats and keeping the Sabbath, etc, things that the Hebrew thoughts of Yeshua would want his disicples to plan to do the Sermon on the Mount that Yeshua of Nazareth (a fully human being, not God, and not immortal, just a prophet really) spoke.

    You are obviously buying into the post conciliar creeds which did not exist during the life and ministry of Yeshua. The Gospel of John is also and should be rejected by anyone who has a simple collegiate knowledge of Gnosticism.

    Let me ask you this, can you "cast out a demon" or "raise the dead"? If not, why not? And do you believe in the "Trinity" doctrine, and if so, why? Why have you decided to accept post conciliar creeds?

    Barring a vague answer to that, here's a stickler for you: A contradiction, plainly from the Hebrew Rabbi Yeshua, that contradicts something "Paul" says:

    Mat 5:17

    Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you,Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.Mat 5:19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    But Paul says....

    Eph 2:14

    For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition, Eph 2:15having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

    Matt

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    Hello rjprice

    Welcome to the board.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Mr Price, I don't want to appear churlish and I do welcome you to the forum but I wonder why you are not prepared to invite discussion on your own site. Do you prefer to keep your visitors distanced from the sort of critical posting that appears here at JWD?

    I feel sorry for you. You are only 21 and are arguing the point about being called 'Father'! You're just a kid. I'm happy for you that you escaped from the Watchtower but running from a small cell to a large one hardly means you have been set free. Keep posting, and keep your mind open.

    You have an interesting journey ahead of you.

  • Frjprice
    Frjprice

    You also missed my point that I did not refer to the typical child father relationship between a paternal man and his son. I am referring to the very express idea that Rabbi Yeshua was implementing which is that we are not to address one in a religious piety with that title of Father. He used a very specific Greek element there, addressing disciples. When a Rabbi in the first century took on disciples, it was common Torah knowledge (from the actual written Torah, not the oral) that only Yahweh is "Father" (pater) to a man. This is why way back when a "man leaves his mother and father".

    G3962

    pat?´? pate¯r

    pat-ayr'

    Apparently a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.

    That is what he means. Joseph and others were not high priests. You are missing the general conception and inherent pragmatism here badly. Study more on this. It's pretty simple. You have taken a title upon yourself that really doesn't belong to you, unless you have literal children. If you are claiming to be a person in position of religious authority, you cannot be called "Father" is what Yeshua is relaying clearly. This has nothing to do with humble meek ones who want to "be a father" to someone else. You are however, in a position of headship in a church, therefore it is totally improper to be called "Father" when there is but One in that position according to the synoptic Matthew.

    My point was that Jesus criticized the jewish leaders who love and strive for nothing but, as matt. 23: 6-7 reads, "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men"

    As I stated above, he was not litterally stating that we cannot call eachother father, weather literal physical father, or spiritual father, to refer to those people as fathers is only achknowleging the truth, which is not what this is all about. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood, or a particular kindor degree of fatherhood, to those who do not have it, such as the jewish leaders he was speaking of in the verse above.

    There are many other verses that arn't meant for us to be taken literally, such as "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29)

    As for the greek, i've read what you said twice now, and i don't get your point, maybe because its late and i'm tired, so forgive me if so, but in the verse he doesn't use the word pater(which was also used for literal fathers), he used rabbi, which is of hebrew origeon and didaskalos, which is the greek word for an instructor...

    -

    -

    -

    As for paul, his letters and the gospel of john... you remove books from the canon of sctipture, that would mean that there was no canon of scripture to begin with, and if not, who desided what would be included in our bibles today?

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Well apparently I haven't heard of everything before! An ex-jw priest...that's a new one.

    Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on your appointment (sorry if I've got the term wrong). If it makes you happy, then great! It really doesn't matter if others don't agree.

    Priests these days seem to me to be more like social workers than anything else. The world needs plenty of those!

    I am an Atheist Catholic...LOL! My ethnic background and few pre-jw years as a child are heavily steeped in Catholicism. I like it, except I don't believe in the Bible or God.......it is somehow grounding and comforting to me.....not in a religious belief sort of way, just reminds me of better times and what a normal life was like, unscarred by a cult. I go to Mass very infrequently but I use it as a time to do relaxation techniques.

  • Lloyd Braun
    Lloyd Braun

    Mr. Price,

    What you are missing about the Greek expression pater which differentiates it from it's normal meaning is the immediate surrounding CONTEXT of dialogue being presented. He was constantly rebuking Pharisaic Rabbis, yes, because they were giving themselves titles that did not belong to them properly. You are doing the same. That is exactly the point. The parable about gouging out your eye believe it or not was actually taken literal. Otherwise, exactly how do you apply the counsel? I don't listen to it now, because I really don't accept most of your corrupted canon of texts.

    As for paul, his letters and the gospel of john... you remove books from the canon of sctipture, that would mean that there was no canon of scripture to begin with, and if not, who desided what would be included in our bibles today?

    This is where you need to do the most study young man. Study WHO put the Greek MSS together into what you now know as the "New Testament" and then study who put together the canon of the Hebrew as well. You will find out, hopefully that the only thing considered "SCRIPTURE" was the Hebrew writings, Psalms, and Prophets. The protocanon.

    It was not until the council at Bithynia that (the first one) that the book was canonized as you read it today. Basically men picked their favorite texts, as opposed to actually seeing which ones meet up with the Tanakh, and which do not.

    Let's prove a point about the "change" or "replacement theology" that takes place in the contradictory book you currently possess, called the "bible". Let's discuss the Sabbath day.

    First, Do you honor, revere and keep the Sabbath day just as Yeshua and all other believers in YHWH did? If not why not? Just to remind you, the Sabbath is the 7th day of the week, Mr. Price. Please feel free to explain how and why the following verse now means very little to Catholics. Is the 7th day still blessed and hallowed?

    Gen 2:2

    And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

    Gen 2:3

    And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it; because that in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made.

  • Sparkplug
    Sparkplug

    Hello Mr Price.

    My name is Sparkplug. I just finished watdhing a documentary named, " Deliver Us from Evil". this was from the victims of Sexual Abuse at the hands of the catholic priest in California who now is in the churches good graces in I believe it is Dubland. With The Jehovahs witnesses having just paid 13, million...(or in the ballpark of) many people are having a hard time standing by a religion that stands by pedophiles. I included although I have a time with any religion as whole anyways. I am respectful enough. I do not think that the Catholics fess up to thier sins and make things right as they should although certian members may try.

    How is it you're a priest at 21 years of age?

    I graduated hs from american school when I turned 16, left the JW's at 17. I went to ohio tech and got a degree in automotive at 18 1/2, enrolled in the old catholic seminary, based on previous theological knowlege the bishop I was currently under cut alot of my training at his discression. I had to change my thinking on some theology, take liturgical classes, history of the church, catechesis, homiletics, ect. and was ordained at 21 and 8 months on aug. 11th.

    I had a friend in Missouri that was in training to be a priest His name was Dan. He had 8 years of schooling to be a Catholic priest and still was not finished yet. (And he was very intelligent.) You mean to tell me you learned Latin, all of those prayes and etc, and they accepted you in just like that? And made you a leader? I have friends that even to marry a Catholic have to go to Catholic marrying school or something like that for a year. ANYHOW! It ended up thet he changed his mind because of a wrestling with his concience and decided it was not for him. It was a major expense for his family. So you must be wealthy or something. Just saying because priesthood is not cheap. Most EXJWs did not get that much of an education and truly did not at first have a lot of marketability. So from 18 to 21~ You must have had a direct line to the Pope or something!

    Just saying!

    And Welcome

  • Vernon Williams
    Vernon Williams

    Father,

    I am not totally believing your story...

    Which Bishop ordained you?

    Where is the parish you are serving: town and name, please....

    Forgive me Father.....I smell a con, here.....

    Vernon Williams

    Monett, MO

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    Welcome to the board. I have alot of family in Eastern Kentucky, plus a cousin in Louisville. I have one quick question--Is your church affiliated with Rome, or is this a splinter Catholic group?

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Listen people.

    It's not the real RCC!

    LOL!

    is this a splinter Catholic group?

    Yes, J-G.

    It's Catholicism Reloaded.

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