Does God love you?

by nvrgnbk 96 Replies latest jw friends

nvrgnbk

Besides, you spelled "cojones" wrong, IGuessed.
Jesus HATES that!
AGuest

My apologies for being absent for a moment... my Lord... and my life... called. May you all have peace (and I mean that in all sincerity).
I am sorry that some feel my response was "unchristian." I do not agree. I believe it was VERY christian, albeit assertive (who said christians aren’t assertive?). I did state that some here are hypocrites, and I stand by that statement. If you do unto someone else something you do NOT want done to you... you are a hypocrite. Most hypocrites, however, do not see themselves as such... and gnash their teeth when exposed.
Where is the hypocrisy? I say to you again: you have falsely accused the Most Holy One of Israel of being unrighteous... based solely on what you have read others write about Him, which writing you erroneously attribute to Him... which I have pointed out to you is NOT the case. You have not even bothered to ask "Is there a defense?" Instead, you have judged... and condemned Him... WITHOUT proof or merit... the VERY same thing you, in essence, accuse Him of doing. That... is hypocrisy.
I understand the position of some who ask, "Where is the love?" and respectfully respond that the LOVE was, first, in my attempt to set the record straight: for the sake of those making the false accusations and for the one falsely accused.
Someone referred to Elihu. I ask, what was the POINT of Elihu's testimony? That those who accused God of bringing calamity of Job... AND JOB HIMSELF... were in SERIOUS error due their misperception of God... and what He does and does not do to earthling man. Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar all claimed to be Job's friends. They ALSO claimed to be "god-fearing." And they tried to use the Law (which, today, would be “the Bible” for some) to support their erroneous positions, saying, "Well, Job, these bad things are happening because somewhere, somehow, you broke “the Law” and so now God is punishing you for it." While it is true that Job never once abandoned his integrity and cursed God for what was happening, Job ALSO blamed God for what was taking place (“I didn’t break any law/sin, but if God sees fit to bring calamity on me, so be it: He’s God and He can do whatever He pleases, even wreck my life, if that’s what He wants to do.”)
It was Elihu who stepped up and told them ALL... that they were in error... that they were attributing unrighteousness to God... that God is love and is not CAPABLE of an unrighteous act... and their SAYING that He was/could/did... made them hypocrites. Did this inflame them? Well, the three, in their arrogance, couldn't hear what Elihu was saying because they were wise IN THEIR OWN EYES. Job at least gave pause.... and thought about it.
And it was for THIS reason, that fact that Job humbled himself to even consider that he might be wrong... that, through my Lord, the Most Holy One of Israel HIMSELF... came to Job and TOLD HIM THE TRUTH (which was that the Most Holy One of Israel was NOT responsible for his calamities). And because Job repented… he received what he had “lost” double-fold. The others… were further rebuked.
You repeatedly ridicule me because, you claim, you “can't” hear what I hear. But YOU... don’t allow yourselves to hear! Indeed, YOU CONSTANTLY STAND IN YOUR OWN WAY! How is that? It is that, in your own eyes... you are NEVER wrong... even when it comes to the Most Holy One of Israel!
This wasn't about me. You didn't challenge me. You didn't falsely accuse me. You didn't attribute unrighteousness to me. You challenged JAH. You falsely accused Him. You attributed GREAT unrighteousness to the Most Holy One of Israel, and when someone "stood in the gap" and came to His defense... rather than stop and say, "Wait a minute, could it be? Could I have been misled?" (which is a completely moot question as, the answer is yes, most certainly, 'cause Lordy, you certainly were misled by the WTBTS for a time, weren't you, and so what in the WORLD makes you think you can put your trust in ANYTHING that "religion" has taught you AT ALL, including that (1) "the Bible" is infallible, and (2) is the word of God, and (3) that the unrighteous acts it attributes to God are true?) How can you have it both ways - God is love... but God is unrighteous?
To the so-called Christians who say, "Shelby, where is your love? You're supposed to be the christian..." I say to you that it is the spirit of Christ IN ME that became inflamed at the false accusations against the Source of that spirit! You CANNOT speak against the Most Holy One of Israel and not expect the spirit to become incensed, can you? I also ask you, where is YOUR love? Why did YOU not "stand in the gap"? I stood where I did… between false accusation and TRUTH… OUT OF LOVE... for my God and Father... for my Lord... and for the sheep who might read this and actually come to believe that God IS unrighteous. Where is the love for these? Oh, that's right... this was just a "joke" - somewhat wishing to provoke discussion. Seriously? Do you really think that was all this way? SERIOUSLY?
If, in my zeal, I spoke with boldness, what of it? Does not the Spirit grant us GREAT freeness of speech? That some were offended because I spoke the TRUTH... is not my concern. I did not blaspheme; I did not speak against the Holy Spirit… but defended the Father of that One. And I have no fear of them because LOVE… casts ALL fear outside… AND covers a multitude of transgressions. I spoke out of that love… which is manifest in my LOYALTY... and these know it. Whether you can receive that or not.
IF… however, YOU have “been ashamed” of the Christ “in front of men”… in that you did NOT speak up and make a defense… whether boldly OR OTHERWISE… will he not be ashamed of YOU before his Father? And you may say, well, this was about God and not Christ. But I say to you if you are accountable as doing to Christ what you did to a least one of his brothers, how much more so if you do it to his heavenly Father?
I exhort you, unbeliever and “Christian” – consider carefully about what transpired here… whether you acted… or omitted to act. I do not judge you, neither does my Lord… or my Father. You are judged… by your own words. Here, they have been “written” for all… including the angels… to see. What “side”, if any, did YOU take? You might want to make a note... for future reference.
My peace remains, and I remain a slave of Christ, to time indefinite.
SA
AlphaOmega

Where is the hypocrisy? I say to you again: you have falsely accused the Most Holy One of Israel of being unrighteous... based solely on what you have read others write about Him, which writing you erroneously attribute to Him... which I have pointed out to you is NOT the case. You have not even bothered to ask "Is there a defense?" Instead, you have judged... and condemned Him... WITHOUT proof or merit... the VERY same thing you, in essence, accuse Him of doing. That... is hypocrisy.
Yet again I find myself repeating what I have already said, in the hope that it sinks in.
Have you ever been a JW ? Can't you understand that if people have been hurt, betrayed and lied to by an organisation claiming to be "Jehovah's Organisation" that they will blame the one who's name is associated with it?
The posts that you read here, that are "anti-God" are not based solely on the reading of the article that NVRGNK posted. It is based on people's experience - an experience that was forced upon them !
To the so-called Christians who say, "Shelby, where is your love? You're supposed to be the christian..." I say to you that it is the spirit of Christ IN ME that became inflamed at the false accusations against the Source of that spirit! You
Look at the example you cited earlier about Jesus and the money changers... His Spirit got inflamed then... why ?
Because people were exploiting "the elect". Those wishing to please God were being exploited in HIS name ! Can't you see ?
This is the very reason that so many people here are angry - because they suffered at the hands of the modern day money changers !!!
PLEASE try to show some compassion - afterall that is a Christlike quality.
You repeatedly ridicule me because, you claim, you “can't” hear what I hear. But YOU... don’t allow yourselves to hear! Indeed, YOU CONSTANTLY STAND IN YOUR OWN WAY!
I think you underestimate the myriad ways that God speaks to people. YOU may have heard a voice, others experience him in different ways.
People do allow themselves to hear - and they WANT to hear.
Again you have set yourself up as judge by saying "You constantly stand in your own way" - even though you claim to not judge !
Does that make you a hypocrite or just deluded ?
and yet you ask...
Where is the hypocrisy?
PLEASE stop using the self-righteous and smug phrase "so-called Christians", you have no idea of the barriers that YOU are creating.
Even though you accept that people have been put-off God by an organisation claiming to speak for Him (yet you show no compassion for this situation), you do not see that you are doing the exact same thing.
By YOUR words and YOUR style YOU create a barrier between Man and God. You drive people away - they think "If how she acts is how God wants me to act - then no way" !
They then despise your self-righteous actions and therefore despise the God that you represent.
Was Jesus not the "imprint of the living God" ? Did he not say, "If you have seen me, you have seen the father"?
WHY then, do you, by your actions portray God to be arrogant, and unapproachable ?
THINK of how YOU are representing God !
snowbird

Someone referred to Elihu
It was I who mentioned Elihu because he waited patiently until the others had their say, then he spoke forcefully but respectfully.
you certainly were misled by the WTBTS for a time, weren't you
We were certainly misled by the WBTS, weren't we?
I spoke out of that love… which is manifest in my LOYALTY... and these know it. Whether you can receive that or not.
1 Corinthians 13 has the most superlative description of love I have ever seen anywhere. It behooves us to read it again for the first time.
May we all have peace.
Sylvia
onacruse

Shelby:
My peace remains, and I remain a slave of Christ, to time indefinite.
Then why don't you just end your human life now, and be with, eternally, the God which you so love, and whom has given you such deep and personal assurances of your after-life with Him?
Rabbit

God made us in His image, right ?
We are supposed to imitate God, right ?
There's a saying, "You always hurt the ones you love."
I hope God doesn't love me. (He likes to hurt people...have you read his book ?)
AGuest

May you have peace!
Have you ever been a JW?
(Smiling) Oh, yes. For many years.
Can't you understand that if people have been hurt, betrayed and lied to by an organisation claiming to be "Jehovah's Organisation" that they will blame the one who's name is associated with it?
To some degree. But that really has nothing to do with this, because God is NOT “Jehovah.” True, some folks have tampered with “the Bible” and SAY that God’s name is “Jehovah.” But the Bible TELLS us what God’s name is. Psalm 68:4. It’s there. We can read it for ourselves. Did we? But that’s beside the point.
It's also true that some here do blame “Jehovah” – however, I did not see that happen in this case, specifically. I saw some blaming God. So, in my view, your analogy would make better sense if you said, “betrayed and lied to by religion, which claims to represent God.” But then, you’d have a problem: you see, “people” didn’t blame God when “they” heard/found out that Catholicism had lied to them. They didn’t blame God when they found out that Protestantism had lied to them. They didn’t blame God when they found out that “Christendom” had lied to them. And the WTBTS is no different than these: they are false christs and false prophets, too. So, let me ask you: why are “people” blaming God now?
I will tell you why: because the WTBTS was their “last hope.” They put ALL of their hope into the “golden calf,” and to find out that “it”… is NOT THE TRUTH… caused a spiritual SHPWRECK. But “the Bible” never said they WERE the truth. WE… simply believed THEM… when they told us they were “the truth.” Could we have avoided that? Yep! We could have done what GOD said to do… what “the Bible” said to do. We COULD have listened to THE SON… or even read “the Bible”… where he/it says that HE is the Truth and that NO ONE comes to the Father EXCEPT through him!
God did not abandon us. We… were… misled. And… we… were… TOLD… we... would... be… IF… we… didn’t… listen… to… the… Son. We were WARNED. Our parents were warned. So, what, now we blame the messenger because WE didn’t LISTEN to his warning?!!? SERIOUSLY?!
“There WILL be false prophets and false christs.” “Wicked men will arise from among you…”
The posts that you read here, that are "anti-God" are not based solely on the reading of the article that NVRGNK posted. It is based on people's experience - an experience that was forced upon them!
“Experience that was forced upon them” by who, God? Seriously?! Both you and I know that our experiences are the result of one of three things: choices our parents make… choices we make… and choices society/our government makes. Period. IF we were misled by religion it is NOT because God forced religion upon us: it is because our parents chose our religion… or we chose it. Or society chose it. Period. True, they/we may have been lied to… but WE… CHOSE… to BELIEVE… the lie. And now, some of us are doing it again. Here.
And you know why? Because we are cowards. I am going to speak the brutal TRUTH to you now, dear AlphaO, NOT because I am unloving, NOT because I believe I am special… but because you DESERVE it. You DESERVE me to tell you the TRUTH… and so I will:
The TRUTH is that “we” are ANGRY at God… for OUR choices… or our parents, etc. We are ANGRY at Him… because HE didn’t STOP us from making the choice we did… to BELIEVE the lie. We are angry because HE didn’t MAKE us know what was true and what was not, so that wouldn’t BE misled. We are angry… because we were fooled… and so we feel like fools. And SOMEONE has to PAY for that, don't they? But not US. Never US. And... NO ONE is ever going to do that to “us” again, right? We will NEVER be misled again.
And so in order to keep that from happening… "we" are now CHOOSING… to write God off, aren't we? I mean, He wrote “us” off, didn’t He, when He LET them mislead us? Okay, okay, so we chose, yes, but we’re HUMAN, right? IMPERFECT? He is NOT, though, so if HE loved US… He would have DONE something, would have stepped in and STOPPED them. Right?
Dear, dear Alpha… the problem is that "we" don’t REALIZE that what the WTBTS “did” to "us"… what “religion” did to "us"… to get "us" to this place… this place of SLANDERING GOD... is EXACTLY what its architect designed it to do: mislead you SO far away… that you WOULD… CURSE GOD! And that is EXACTLY what some of “us” have done and are doing: cursing God. (Shaking head sadly)
The WTBTS was only another “pawn” in the Adversary’s game… “to mislead, IF POSSIBLE… even the chosen ones.” They were merely another tool… and for some here, he’s goal has been accomplished. “We” were only partially misled by the WTBTS – it is the Adversary who has used their deceit… to “devour” you.
But “we” don't see that. Because "we" are still blind. Still. Actually, even more so. Although we say we "see."
Look at the example you cited earlier about Jesus and the money changers... His Spirit got inflamed then... why ? Because people were exploiting "the elect". Those wishing to please God were being exploited in HIS name ! Can't you see ?
I do see. And I ask you: whom did he get angry with?
This is the very reason that so many people here are angry - because they suffered at the hands of the modern day money changers !!!
What does that have to do with my Lord and the money changers? His anger was that those who were at fault. Here, the anger is directed at GOD... who is NOT at fault. But why is that? I refer you to the truth I shared with you, above.
PLEASE try to show some compassion - afterall that is a Christlike quality.
Sigh! I did not show a lack of compassion; indeed, I am CRYING OUT to “you” to stop what you’re doing OUT of compassion. Do “you” TRULY want to find yourself having slandered the TRUE God? TRULY? “You” are so righteous in your own eyes? Like Cain… are you “RIGHTLY hot with anger.” And what was the warning to Cain? That if he did not get mastery over his anger, SIN was crouching at his door and for HIM was its desire. These here, if they do not get a grip… will sin. Unforgivably. Who will warn them against it? Who will say to them IN HONESTY… you are in error… and in danger? Where is all of that so-called LOVE “everyone” is talking about? For God… for Christ… for those who might be “stumbled” by the accusations made against God… and for those MAKING such accusations?
I think you underestimate the myriad ways that God speaks to people.
The TRUE God only speaks to people ONE way. Through His Son. There is NO other way. None. Zippo. Zilch. Now, that Son might send an angel, but if whatever “way” does not come THROUGH the Son… it is NOT from God.
YOU may have heard a voice, others experience him in different ways.
You don’t “experience” God, dear Alpha. He is not some abstract entity that uses “signs and portents” to communicate with us. He is a person. A real, live person. He is just a SPIRIT as opposed to flesh with its blood. And in order to see and hear Him, we must worship Him… with SPIRIT… and TRUTH.
People do allow themselves to hear - and they WANT to hear.
I know you want to believe that. Just like the people of my Lord's day in the flesh believed that they weren't like their forefathers who killed the Prophets. The word of my Lord to me, however, is that "they THINK they want to hear… but their thoughts and actions DEMONSTRATE what is truly INSIDE them… and that is that they really DON’T want to hear." And he said the reason why is two-fold: first, fear: "They are AFRAID of what they might hear and see"… and the possible responsibility that might come with it. They THINK that as long as they can say, “Well, the elders told me and so I believed,” or “I thought the Bible said…” then they won’t be held accountable. He said the second reason is that they don’t want to know the truth… about themselves.
You see, in order to hear and see into the spirit realm… in order to enter in… one has to be clean. We are, however, all of us… UNCLEAN… on the inside. Every one of us. We can’t enter in, however, until we cleanse the INSIDE of our cup… and REMOVE… what is unclean. Christ, is the LIGHT… and when he shines, that light is first turned on US. And most can’t handle it. Rather than walk toward the Light… so that what is IN them is further EXPOSED… they move AWAY from it. From him. Back into the darkness. Farther away… from within hearing range.
Does the fact that I hear mean I am cleaner? Yes…and no. I am just as “unclean” inside as the next person. HOWEVER… as I drew closer to the Light… to my Lord… and he exposed what was in ME… and I ACKNOWLEDGED IT… and ASKED FORGIVENESS for it… HE… because he “WANTED” to… covered it! With his blood. Washed it. Blotted it out. Made me "clean". So that while my error(s) have not vanished, they are not IN VIEW before God. Don’t get me wrong: were I to turn away from him… they would once again be revealed… because of having no “covering.”
And this is the reason that I come here and share the wonderful things he shows and tells me. It is the reason why I have CHOSEN to be his servant, his slave, and servant to his sheep: because he loved ME enough to use his blood to blot out my errors… which were great… and to blot out those I may still make… so that I can stand before the throne of God… with a CLEAN conscience! I have no fear… or fear of death… judgment… condemnation… or destruction. Because those in union with Christ… HAVE NO CONDEMNATION.
This is not unique to me. It is not held out only to me. It is held out to ALL. All one need do is EXERCISE FAITH… and LISTEN when he speaks to you.
Again you have set yourself up as judge by saying "You constantly stand in your own way" - even though you claim to not judge !
I do not judge you. Whatever the “sentence” is for standing in your own way… is not mine to say. To say that you constantly stand in your own way, however, is not judging. It is merely stating the truth. If I say to one who steals, “You are a thief,” I am not judging such one. I am only stating the truth. If I say to such one, “You are a thief and you should hang for stealing,” then I have judged that one. If I say to him, “You are a thief and you will hang for stealing,” then I have judged… and condemned… that one.
Does that make you a hypocrite or just deluded ?
It makes me honest. Apparently, more than "you" can bear. But I can't lie to you - even in the face of controversy and perhaps persecution. It makes me someone with integrity, that I will not LIE to you. Not one little bit. My goodness, aren’t “you all” TIRED of being lied to YET?
PLEASE stop using the self-righteous and smug phrase "so-called Christians", you have no idea of the barriers that YOU are creating.
First, dear Alpha, please, if you will… tell me what a “Christian,” is. What makes one a “Christian”? Second, not all who call themselves “Israel” are Israel, are they? The WTBTS claims to be led by “the anointed.” Good lordy… what a LIE! Yet, most of those “we” knew were sweet, kind, old folks, weren’t they? Yet, they have put their trust… their entire LIVES… in a lie. IF they were “anointed”… why didn’t holy spirit LEAD THEM OUT?
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord…”
Even though you accept that people have been put-off God by an organisation claiming to speak for Him (yet you show no compassion for this situation), you do not see that you are doing the exact same thing.
I’m sorry – I’m confused. “These” have been put-off God “by an organization”… and as a result malign, slander and falsely accuse God… and I’m the “bad guy”? Seriously?! Where is “there” love and compassion? As I said… hypocrites.
By YOUR words and YOUR style YOU create a barrier between Man and God. You drive people away - they think "If how she acts is how God wants me to act - then no way" !
No, they’d rather me say, “Yeah, “scr*w God,” right along with them, right? Now, THAT would be real “Christian” of me, wouldn’t it? Seriously…
They then despise your self-righteous actions and therefore despise the God that you represent.
I am not greater than the One I serve. The people he spoke to didn’t like what he had to say… or how he said it, either. As a result, they continued following the Pharisees… or the Romans. Either way, they still lost their lives, though, didn’t they, as one group couldn’t save them… and the other put them to death.
Was Jesus not the "imprint of the living God" ? Did he not say, "If you have seen me, you have seen the father"?
He did, indeed. But I don’t think I’m the one that truth has been lost on. If you TRULY believed this, then you would have understood where I was coming from, how the Most Holy One of Israel could NOT be guilty of what He is being accused of. But no one seems to get that...
WHY then, do you, by your actions portray God to be arrogant, and unapproachable ?
That is really is merely your perception and I am not entirely sure all would agree with you. That you feel this way… and perhaps a few others… does not concern me. My concern lies with the opinion of my Lord: at the end of the day, it’s HIS “well done, good and faithful servant” that counts – not yours.
THINK of how YOU are representing God !
(Trying VERY hard not to laugh) THINK... of how folks are MIS-representing Him. Where is your "reproach" for them? This is EXACTLY why I use the word “hypocrite.”
My peace remains, dear Alpha.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

May you have peace!
It was I who mentioned Elihu because he waited patiently until the others had their say, then he spoke forcefully but respectfully.
Yes. Unfortunately, in the moment of my responding, I did not recall who it was and, unfortunately, my browser doesn’t go from post to post (it used to, but I am not sure why it doesn’t anymore…). My sincere apologies for not remembering.
We were certainly misled by the WBTS, weren't we?
You are totally correct: we. I was certainly among “us” at one time and I did not mean to intimate that I wasn't. Not at all. My apologies if I seemed unclear.
1 Corinthians 13 has the most superlative description of love I have ever seen anywhere. It behooves us to read it again for the first time.
This is an excellent example and I appreciate your bringing it up here, dear Snow, truly. Thank you. I have to be honest, however, and say, with all due respect, that I am compelled by the spirit of my Lord to say to you that while what Paul said IS excellent, I am unable to agree that it is the most “superlative,” at least, not for me. For me, it would be the words of my Lord, when he said, “No one has GREATER love than this, that he should give his life on behalf of his friends.” Also, while it is the most widely used, Paul’s description is not conclusive. In addition to my Lord, the Prophets, David and the Apostle John also give descriptions of what constitutes love and none restate what Paul wrote, but actually give additional qualities and conduct. It is my SINCERE hope that if folks don’t have that law written on their hearts, that they go back and read what these wrote/said, if they need to.
May we all have peace.
Indeed. Love… and peace.
I am your servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
SA
sweetstuff

it used to, but I am not sure why it doesn’t anymore…).
Maybe God is sending you a sign AGuest, STOP< DROP AND ROLL.
AGuest

May you have peace!
why don't you just end your human life now, and be with, eternally, the God which you so love, and whom has given you such deep and personal assurances of your after-life with Him?
Assuming your question is coming from a good motive, I would reply, first, that I don’t need to end my human life to be, eternally, with the God I “so love.” Through Christ, He is with me now, 24/7… and I with him. That is what being “in union” means. Thus, my assurance is for now (“Look I am WITH you. ALL the days until the conclusion…”) which is why we receive a “token”… AND for the future, when we receive the literal reality.
Second, I LOVE my life… every bit of it… every day. I have NOTHING to be unhappy about… in my life. Any sadness I feel is for others who are still struggling, still trying to “find the truth,” still trying to make sense out of this life and this world. My heart cries for them, and their “tribulations,” whatever they may be (although, I must be honest and say that I think some of “us” in this world ought to feel less sorry for ourselves and more sorry for those who are experiencing great hunger, disease and/or death, for whatever reason…).

Third, even if I were not happy... my life is not mine to end. It was purchased with the blood of another and so it belongs to HIM… to do with as HE wills. So far, his will has resulted in GREAT blessings for me.

I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SA

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