is it a cult, or isn't it?

by gcc2k 48 Replies latest members private

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa
    I know that part me still wants to go back, still thinks that I'm doing the wrong thing and I should just close my eyes and lay down in the poppy fields.

    I remember feeling like this. It came when I was tired of thinking, when I was most upset that it all happened, realising the time and impact being in the JW experiance had on me, my life and my family.......my future.

    I was scared of change and what was and is always around the corner. I felt like I was constantly running in front of a fire ready to consume me.

    Give yourself time to process what you have learned and figured out......and realize that wanting to go back is normal(IMO) there is a grieving process and never underestimate the work involved in learning a new way to live....changing your thought process and feelings, at one time they were automatic and now you may have to work a bit harder to respond in your new ways.

    Hope this make some sense.

    purps

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    I'd say label it whatever you feel most comfortable with at this point and move on to the higher goal of practical steps to healing.

    Have you asked your therapist about his/her personal opinion about them? For all you know s/he's married to one or has family in it and the conflict of interest might be impeding your healing process.

    By the way, the longer your therapist dabbles in the arena of semantics, entertaining your efforts to control his/her mental perspective, the more money s/he makes. In mind control terms, please be careful not to jump from the frying pan into the fire. (Controlled by a cult, to controlled by a CULTure.) You are paying for a service. I hope you and your therapist will keep focussed on the real goal (healing and building up skills to deal with your path FORWARD) and not get entirely hung up on semantics. (www.dictionary.com)

    SPAZnik was right on the money. You don't have to convince your therapist of this. Even Steven Hassan didn't think they were a cult he was first helping people. He had to learn that. You need to move on. IMO, arguments over whether or not it's a cult, whether or not it has done you damage, these will not help you. Your therapist is avoiding letting you blame it all on JW's. He may have a point, or he may be biased. Even if he understates JW involvements in your past, move toward the goals for the present. That doesn't mean you can't discuss the JW's and how they have affected you, just don't stay on defining them.

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    Why are you debating something like that with a therapist? Shouldn't the issue be how *whatever* has affected you, and how you're going to deal with it? From a healing point of view, it doesn't matter whether or not it IS a cult. Your therapist ought to be more sympathetic to what troubles you. They ought to be the last person in your life telling you that it's not that bad - their role is to work you through it and help you deal with the emotions.

  • anewme
    anewme

    Maybe the terms "scam" "sham" or "ripoff" are more comfortable for you!
    Or try "liars" "doomsday lovers" or "con artists".
    There are a variety of labels that might feel better to you.
    I have always enjoyed "Lying manipulative evil bastards" to describe the Watchtower Society.
    But each to his own.


    Anewme

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    It might be hard to find a rational therapist in Bangladesh, but I'd try. A therapist that hasn't recognized Jehovah's Witnesses as a high control group needs to be replaced today.

    Many of us (like me) who were raised as children by active believing Witness parents are defective. Our operating systems are messed up. When we should have been prepared for life, we were being prepared to die. We lived in anticipation of impending doom. It scarred our psyche.

    Everything we were taught at home, at school, and in church was wrong. The only thing we could save was the multiplication tables.

    During the reeducation process, we realize we can't trust our own minds. It's a phase, it's real, but it's disconcerting. We find a good rational teacher and we rebuild based on reality and facts. Superstition, tradition, and rote ritual go in the garbage. Superstitious assumptions don't fit in an objective reality environment. Save all the make believe stuff for the Saturday afternoon movies.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Every single scale or list of criteria about cults fits the WTS and how it manipulates and controls people.

    And the WTS doesn't just fit one or two of the criteria. It fits them all.

    When we say "cult" to many people they think of Koresh, and Jonestown and other cults that kill their own members in a mass suicide. They may also think about Hari Krishna or Moonies. They don't think nice clean looking people who walk down the street and knock on doors can be looking for recruits.

    The WTS doesn't look like that too them. They are just normal looking people with odd beliefs. But you have to look harder than that and look at their practices.

    Believe me. I too found it difficult to believe they were a cult.

    As for your therapist you might want to discuss how the WTS is like living in a highly dysfunctional and abusive family - just on a much larger scale.

    Take a look in the

    You might also find The Best of... WTS and How it Controls People very interesting

    Frannie Bananie has written a list of criteria and I think Rebel8 also. And I know I have done more than what is listed in my Best of. I'd go find them but my mouse is quickly dying on me and it is very frustrating to use

  • theMartian
    theMartian

    If you look up the word "cult" in the dictionary- any religious group is a cult. Most use it to describe those that follow a man. Hmmm! Pope, pastor, Reverend, evangelist, guru, 'Governing Body'- those that follow them or others are a CULT!

    Now those of us (not many) that seperate the instructions from them & Christ- and follow Christ's when they differ, are True Christians!

    Agape,

    MFM

    alt

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Another thing about the therapy

    We need to provide a context for what we discuss with our therapist. If they are thinking religion and we are talking high control group/cult then we are talking for nothing.

    Someone made the statement that only another ex-JW would understand any of this is not entirely true. ex members of any cult whether it is religious, political, social, therapeutic, etc will understand this. The effects are the same regardless of the group.

    And most people who have come from an abusive family will relate to the control over the family and the fear instilled in the victims.

    I have suggested people read Toxic Parents but change the "parent" to "religion" See the above link for my Best of and look for the title "Toxic Parent Toxic Religion"

  • ex-nj-jw
    ex-nj-jw

    Sweetie it's a cult!!!

    Why do you have thought of going back? Are you a fade, Df'd, DA'd?

    nj

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Lifton

    Coercive persuasion is the academic term for mind control or brainwashing. The first major study showing how to identify organizations using mind control was done by Robert Lifton in the 1950’s. He specifically researched Chinese communist techniques.

    In the 1950’s Robert J Lifton conducted a ground breaking study of techniques used to brainwash American prisoners of war in Communist China, presented in the 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China . After a short period of time captured American pilots came to follow the Communist ideology. Lifton identified eight points used that indicate a group is using coercive techniques or thought reform, techniques commonly used by cults.

    Another leader in the field is Dr. Margaret Singer. Dr Singer summarises Lifton’s eight points as follows at http://www.factnet.org/rancho1.htm (May 4 2005). As all eight points align closely with practices and teachings of the Watchtower Society I have added examples of common Watchtower reasoning to show how these coincide:

    1. Environment Control. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

    > “False religious propaganda from any source should be avoided like poison! Really, since our Lord has used “the faithful and discreet slave” to convey to us “sayings of everlasting life,” why should we ever want to look anywhere else?” Watchtower 1987 November 1 p.20

    2. Mystical Manipulation. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.

    > Russell – “Then I knew why the Lord had led me to it so slowly and cautiously. I needed a special preparation of heart for the full appreciation of all it contained, and I was all the more assured that it was not of my own wisdom; for if of my own why would it not have come at once?” Zion’s Watch Tower 1906 July 15 p.234

    > Rutherford - “Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah... and is given to the faithful anointed.... the remnant are instructed by the angels of the Lord. The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones.” Preparation p.64

    > Governing Body - “…Christ used his authority by actively leading his congregation on earth. He did this by means of the holy spirit, the angels, and the governing body made up of the 12 apostles and the elders of the Jerusalem congregation.” Watchtower 1987 August 1 p.15

    3. Demand for Purity. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed."

    > “The resulting peaceableness of Jehovah’s people makes them a refreshing oasis in a violent world. ” Watchtower 2002 July 1 p.17

    4. Cult of Confession. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

    > “So, if doubts, complaints, or apostasy threaten to contaminate you spiritually, cut them away quickly! (Compare Matthew 5:29, 30.) Get help from the congregation elders.” Watchtower 1989 October 1 p.18

    > “It is certainly not easy to confess to others deeds that one feels ashamed of and to seek forgiveness. It takes inner strength.” Watchtower 2001 June 1 p.31

    > “If he does not do this within a reasonable period of time, concern for the cleanness of the congregation should move you to report the matter to the elders” Watchtower 1989 October 15 pp.14-15

    5. Sacred Science. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.

    > “First, since “oneness” is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding.” Watchtower 2001 August 1 p.14

    6. Loaded Language. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.

    > ‘the truth’, ‘new system’, ‘worldly people’, ‘disfellowship’ ‘Jehovah’s Organization’, ‘RV’s’, ‘door to door’ and ‘theocratic’

    7. Doctrine over Person. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

    > “The world is filled with unhappiness, and people generally have a gloomy outlook on the future. However, we have a bright outlook, knowing that one day all sadness will be a thing of the past.” Kingdom Ministry Feb 2002 p.1

    8. Dispensing of Existence. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.

    > “To turn away from Jehovah and his organization, to spurn the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave,” and to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land. ” Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.20

    > “I suffered much pain and heartache without Jehovah’s guidance,” says one young woman who for a time left God’s organization. “I tried to fit in with the world, but because I was not truly like others, they rejected me. I felt like a lost child who needed a father to guide me. That is when I realized that I needed Jehovah. I never wanted to live independent of him again.” Watchtower 1998 October 1 pp.10-11

    > “With apostates earth wide being destroyed, what reason can one have for confidence of life in paradise to follow?” Kingdom Ministry September 1973 p.6

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