is it a cult, or isn't it?

by gcc2k 48 Replies latest members private

• 

  IsaacJS2

  As far as I'm concerned, it depends on what you consider a cult. There are different standards. Some only consider groups a cult if they use physical force to coerce their members, considering groups like the WTS to be "high control groups." Which is basically a step down. But those standards are set pretty high.

  I consider them a cult in any case. They meet my definition. If people don't like the word "cult," then I would at least say they are very controlling and a bad influence on people. I would be interested in hearing why your therapist doesn't see them this way. Is your therapist being truly objective, not believing your experiences, or judging this differently than the rest of us have?

  IsaacJ
• 

  Paralipomenon

  While the Witnesses exhibit cult like behavior, after looking at other cults I would classify JW's as religious extremists or a high control group.
  
  Witnesses do alot of suggesting, but they don't strive for 100% control of your life.
  
  Cults demand conformity.
  
  High Control Groups suggest it.
  
  Witnesses strongly ask for donations. They do not demand financial statements or seize your assets in the name of the cause
  Witnesses suggest you be well groomed. They do not provide a special uniform so everyone is dressed the same.
  Witnesses schedule meetings. They do not set a schedule for you to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom etc.
  Witnesses are everywhere. They do not ask members to relocate to a central area
  Witnesses are eager to disfellowship. They don't try to keep members in or physically stop members from leaving.
  Witnesses are guided by the Governing Body. They follow the lead of the GB, but still the object of their worship is Jehovah.
  
  I'm just trying to be objective here. When you look at the average cult, the witnesses are a cakewalk in comparison.
  
  In my interpretation, in a cult you can always find an individual or group that benefit from the actions of their members. I have yet to see that within the witnesses. Everyone has their own interpretation of a cult.
  
  It might be interesting to discuss people's distinction between a cult and a high control group. Where does one end and the other begin?
• 

  monophonic

  [I still can't convince my therapist that it's a cult, or that this religion has had (and has) a major impact on me.]

  is your therapist a jehovah's witness? there are some these days. i had one so-called therapist tell me that my problems would be solved if i would just go back to meetings. that was my last visit with her...and she was all for confronting the brothers on every level and every minute detail of problems i was having. i found out quickly that honesty with elders only leads to making sure the congregation is clean and has nothing to do with helping the individual...aka, the opposite of what jesus taught in his illustrations.

  this therapist has some jw baggage or really sucks as a therapist. instead of trying to prove if or if not a cult, ask why this is an issue with the therapist. it's ok to find out their intentions regarding this and to decide that another therapist would be the best bet.

  i'd be curious to the answer of why the therapist feels the need to be convinced the jw is a cult.

  please post how the situation resolves, and good luck.

  btw, just a long shot, is your therapist in oakland? you can pm me if so.
• 

  Hobo

  In my opinion, it IS definately a cult, but they don't really practice mind control so much as heart control- there are so many strings attached to your behaviour.

  I suppose brainwashing and heartwashing are pretty much the same thing, and both should be avoided and discouraged.

  I've been free since I was 17- 30 odd years now, and though the pain was so intense there were times I wanted to die, I didn't. I lived and learned, and managed to fill that big empty place inside me.

  Cult?? Yes, indeed.
• 

  jgnat

  Rare, I know, but I'm going to respond without reading everyone else's posts. gcc, you need a new therapist. This one sucks.

  but they don't really practice mind control so much as heart control- there are so many strings attached to your behaviour.

  Great phrase, I'm going to try and remember that. And welcome, hobo. Thanks for the PM. I see we are fellow Albertans, WOOHOO!

  I believe the society IS a cult, by the sociological definition. But I avoid the word. There are too many emotional connotations to the word, like Jonestown. They have the potential to be AS dangerous, but let's face it. The society, to the outside world, looks like the milquetoast religion. Well-scrubbed lads and lassies in business attire, sedately strolling from door-to-door. How harmful can they be?

  I use the word high-control group, as Steve Hassan does. I've enjoyed watching JW apologists try and wiggle out of THAT definition on the PBS discussion board. Their best defence, "They can leave whenever they like" is easily refuted with, "But at what cost?"
• 

  blondie

  A cult doesn't have to have each and every one of the characteristics listed.

  You might enjoy ithinkisee's comparison of statements of the WTS and the Hassan's BITE model.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/112308/1.ashx

  Blondie (took me a while to stop calling in "just a high control group."
• 

  stevenyc

  An organization that would change a parents way of thinking, so as to make them believe that it's in their child's best interests to die instead of receiving blood, is a cult.
  
  steve
• 

  nvrgnbk

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• 

  gcc2k

  Thanks for the all the replies everyone.
  I want to go into more detail about why I'm asking the question but I lack the time right now. I'm also a little concerned about being "outed".
  
  Essentially, I'm a fader, and have been having marital issues with my active spouse for some time.
  After reading Hassan's book the other day, I privately approached the therapist (non-JW, joint counseling) and said something like "this guy this it's a cult. What if I'm mad that she won't leave, that I can't make her leave, and I'm trying my best to jettison the marriage because deep down part of me fears that I'll cave in and go back."
  
  He thought about it for a few days, then at our next meeting returned the book and basically said "so what". He's more convinced that I have a fear of intimacy due to my childhood, and that's my problem. I don't think so.
  
  At times I wonder if the religion issue is an excuse for me, but I truly believe it has impact. I have no friends that I share with my spouse, essentially no friends at all, other than the "friends" who ask for me from time to time and occasionally invite me to someone's going away party. When you feel like you're alone and the person who should be your closest friend doesn't share your beliefs, and even worse, you feel like you've let her down because you've changed, I think that's got to have an impact on a relationship.
  
  The question of whether it is or not a cult has impact on how I decide to let my kids interact with this religion. Having hard evidence that someone like Hassan thinks it is a cult would make it more likely that I would want to get them out now, rather than allowing them to choose their own path later.
  
  BTW, I'm not in Bangladesh :)
• 

  Robert222

  Many of us (like me) who were raised as children by active believing Witness parents are defective. Our operating systems are messed up. When we should have been prepared for life, we were being prepared to die. We lived in anticipation of impending doom. It scarred our psyche.
  -------

  YES. Thank you for the above statement garybuss. You put into words what I couldn't. We never learned how to live. And I do have a lot of anger towards the CULT of JWs. The GB have been wrong for 100 yrs and will continue to be wrong. They continue to mess up our lives and everyone they can reach.