is it a cult, or isn't it?

gcc2k

I broke down and ordered the two books by Steve Hassan.
Even though I read in black and white that he now believes the Witnesses practice mind control, it's still hard to accept.

Nonetheless, it explains several issues I've been facing. However, even after sharing the books, I still can't convince my therapist that it's a cult, or that this religion has had (and has) a major impact on me.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for, really, just venting. I know that part me still wants to go back, still thinks that I'm doing the wrong thing and I should just close my eyes and lay down in the poppy fields. The rest of me is fighting that tooth and nail, but it kills me that rest of my family is sniffing the poppies.

Again, not sure what I'm asking, but if this sounds familiar, chime in please.

Vernon Williams

G,

I have told several people in various stages of exiting, many pastors and lay people, and myself in the mirror a few times a month, that unless you have been through it you do not understand. Do not expect anyone but ex jw's to "get it."

'You are not nuts. You are sane and getting more so. The first step in dealing with the issues you have with the JWs is to know that it is not you "with the problem." THEY have the problem and you have been coping with insanity. These people are living in a mythical, imaginary world created by a few whacked out leaders devoid of good sense, conscience, or empathy.

Continue "tooth and nail." It is a battle worth fighting: for you, for others.

Yours in this Struggle,

V PS: the fact you are up so late shows how seriously this is effecting you. It is ok, bro.....

nvrgnbk

nvrgnbk	Re: Are JW's a Cult?
Post 763 of 3177 since 19-Feb-07 34 y 5 m 29 d	1. The Guru is always right. 2. You are always wrong. 3. No Exit. 4. No Graduates. 5. Cult-speak. 6. Group-think. 7. Irrationality. 8. Suspension of disbelief. 9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions... 10. Personal attacks on critics. 11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY. 12. The cult and its members are special. 13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members. 14. Dogma, Unquestionable Dogma, and Sacred Science. 15. Indoctrination of members. 16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities. 17. Instant Community. 18. Instant Intimacy. 19. Surrender To The Cult. 20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith. 21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts. 22. The cult is self-absorbed. 23. Dual Purposes. 24. Aggressive Recruiting. 25. Deceptive Recruiting. 26. No Humor. 27. You can't tell the truth. 28. Cloning -- You must redefine yourself and your life in cult terms. 29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs. 30. The End Justifies The Means. 31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History. 32. Different Levels of Truth. 33. Newcomers can't think right. 34. The Cult Implants Phobias. 35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing. 36. Confession Sessions. 37. A System of Punishments and Rewards. 38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection. 39. Mentoring. 40. Intrusiveness. 41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader. 42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers. 43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency. 44. Dispensed existence 45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic 46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them 47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans. 48. Mystical Manipulation 49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total commitment. 50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust 51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused. 52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages 53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes 54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists 55. Belief equals truth 56. Use of double-binds 57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions. 58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around. 59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru. 60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality 61. The Guru Is Extra-Special. 62. Flexible, shifting morality 63. Separatism 64. Inability to tolerate criticism 65. A Charismatic Leader 66. Calls to Obliterate Self 67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind. 68. Don't Feel Your Feelings. 69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process. 70. You Owe The Group. 71. We Have The Panacea. 72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments 73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings 74. Trance-Inducing Practices 75. New Identity -- Redefinition of Self -- Revision of Personal History 76. Membership Rivalry 77. True Believers 78. Scapegoating and Excommunication 79. Promised Powers or Knowledge . 80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies. 81. Hypocrisy 82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial. 83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses 84. You can't make it without the cult. 85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider 86. The cult wants to own you. 87. Channeling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information. 88. They Make You Dependent On The Group. I 89. Demands For Compliance With The Group 90. Newcomers Need Fixing. 91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique. 92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims. 93. Black And White Thinking 94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques. 95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult. 96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult. 97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth. 98. Making cult members work long hours for free. 99. Total immersion and total isolation. 100. Mass suicide.

OUTLAW

I have family who can`t remember what they preached for 20yrs(Armageddon by 1975).....They were told to forget it.They did..???.....It`s a Cult!!...OUTLAW

nvrgnbk

I bet my everlasing life in a paradise earth that it is a cult.

Vernon Williams

I am only posting this so the three active topics on the list have my name on them!

Gotta hurry,

V

SPAZnik

Is it imperative to have a nice narrowly defined label to slap on your perspective of that place in your life? Is it imperative that everyone else conform to your label? Is it possible to use terminology that paves the way to productive results oriented sessions with your counsellor? Does your therapist care if you call it a cult?

I'd say label it whatever you feel most comfortable with at this point and move on to the higher goal of practical steps to healing.

Have you asked your therapist about his/her personal opinion about them? For all you know s/he's married to one or has family in it and the conflict of interest might be impeding your healing process.

By the way, the longer your therapist dabbles in the arena of semantics, entertaining your efforts to control his/her mental perspective, the more money s/he makes. In mind control terms, please be careful not to jump from the frying pan into the fire. (Controlled by a cult, to controlled by a CULTure.) You are paying for a service. I hope you and your therapist will keep focussed on the real goal (healing and building up skills to deal with your path FORWARD) and not get entirely hung up on semantics. (www.dictionary.com)

I wish you every success in focusing on where it is you wish to head now.

Peace and mental freedom to you.

Mysterious

Get a new therapist that is more sensitive to your needs. Anyone who refuses to accept the cult has had a major impact on your life is not the right person to be counselling you.

VM44

The Watchtower satisfies a sufficient number of the listed criteria so as to classify it definitely as a cult!

No doubt about it. It is as it acts, and that is as a cult.

--VM44

Nellie

I remember being at a place where I would hear "Witnesses are a cult" and my knee-jerk reaction would be "OF COURSE NOT!!"

Time and distance allows me to look at the organization with clarity and see that, in fact, they are. It wasn't easy for me to accept that I had spent 35 years in a cult. But then I came to realize that most major organized religions fit the description of cult.

It's like the term "apostate" - at one time I felt it was the worse possible insult. Now I no longer accept their definition of the word. i.e. I'm not out picketing any KHs - but I readily acknowledge that I've changed my belief system (which is the accurate definition of the word).

Like another poster said, it's semantics! What made you leave? Do you really believe it's the truth? Have you examined the organization? If being a witness makes you happy - even after you know the answers to these questions - then enjoy! For most of us, it doesn't work.

is it a cult, or isn't it?

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