by Liza 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Liza....... before you go and jump in to the water so to speak with the jws. you might want to have a brief look at this web site http://www.evilbible.com/ after reading some of the articles
see if you can rationalize the statement that god is an all loving purposeful god.......Religions like the WTS. are just another device to bring power and control and not to mention money into
mens hands. Power control money = Happy men
Liza:
I have a couple of other suggestions.
It seems as if you are trying to mentally juggle too many things at once. This is a good way to totally overload yourself. The issues you are grappling with are huge. Don't try to rush yourself throught this, or try to resolve all issues at once. It will take time to sort them out.
It can be overwhelming to want to resolve all doctrinal issues and uncertainties immediately. As one who spent 30 years as a JW, I was so accustomed to having everything answered for me by the organization, that I had a hard time handing ambiguities and uncertainties. I felt a lot of anxiety. I believe the most important things are praying for God's guidance, and Bible study (i.e., different translations, lexicons, as well as the Watchtower's Interlinear translation)
As far as what I had suggested earlier, it is not as time consuming or difficult as you might think. Just do a little bit at a time. I would suggest that you just print out all of the posts on this thread and place them in a filefolder. Don't try to take everyone's suggestions all at once. Take each post one at a time, and address each topic or issue one at a time. Don't feel like you have to rush through it. It's not a race.
Personally, I would not encourage you to stop attending meetings or to stop going out in service. By all means, keep attending. You can do your research on the side. This is what many of us have done. In fact, you may even decide that you will become one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I do not believe that the Scriptures teach that being a true Christian hinges upon organizational membership. Only Jesus Christ has authority to decide who are his sheep and who are not. I truly believe that there are both true and false Christianns in every denomination and organization; even Jehovah's Witnesses. Jesus has allowed the wheat and the weeds to grow together. The Scriptures are clear that our being one of Christ's followers relys upon our individual conduct, and relationship with God's Son. We cannot gain this through a surrogate relationship with an organization. At the same time, I do not believe that organizational membership necessarily precludes one from being one of Christ's sheep.
Don't try to rush yourself through this process. Do it thoughtfully, and prayerfully while keeping the following Scriptures in mind:
Acts 17:11; 1Thess 5:21; 1John 4:1; Hebrews 5:14
arthur, i like how you put your last paragraph. I beleive what the jws do. You said only jesus knows who the other sheep are, but so many christians I talk to say they already know their fate because they felt jesus come through them, so good point.
-The true religion does not preach hate, only hate to what is bad, but not who is bad.
Notice this WT article. You can look it up at reexamine.org or go to the WT library and read it in their own stuff:
WT 11/15/52 p. 703
Questions From Readers In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?—P. C., Ontario, Canada.
We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.
God’s law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization. The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home. Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.
If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God’s people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.
Satan’s influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God’s organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.
The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person—no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah’s sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.
The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man’s law and God’s law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation’s disfellowship order—no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness’ sake.
The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation’s disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.
Others can find articles that clearly say to "hate" the former believer. The article I posted says that you should cut
relations with such a person because the law doesn't allow you to kill them. That's HATE ENOUGH FOR ME.
Oh, Liza, liza. You skim the surface, a gloss Christian. You've glanced at the research and decided it is not "damning". Did I ever say the verity of a Christian depends on their stance on holidays or blood? Look to the core, dear. WHY did the JW's mess with the bible to support their concept of "Jehovah" and "Lord"? Who is hiding something?
You may have met a few people who've made you consider a personal relationship with - but some thing isn't quite right!
Or fall for someone but find out they don't feel the same way!
Then you meet someone and fall for them and they for you - things are about as perfect as they can get especially when you understand each other and really get on well together.
In this religion you might start to fall for it but never think it will fall for you - if anyones dumped it'll be you! It won't let you out gently!
Also ask yourself this;
Do I truly with all my heart - even if I don't make paradise - believe that I'm helping everyone by telling them to follow in what I believe?
Does it bring you fulfillment? Does it make you feel as you'd feel if you were tending the starving or the suffering? Are you completely, in your heart, at ease with yourself and the consequences of what you may be foisting upon unsuspecting families? Enough people on these forums feel their lives have been ruined by fundamentalist teachings! If your comfortable with these things and there's a certainty in your heart that you feel is undeniable - then you've already made your choice!
Remember the WTS is a very dictatorial organisation with the GB claimimg total authority over doctrine, interpretation and style of administration and anyone opposing them is quickly expelled. They are authoritarian like the medieval catholic church. They absolutely resent and crash any opposition to their ideology or to themselves. Why would you want to be under such a hierarchy? Also note the way the shun family members and change many of their crucial their doctrines eg on blood, alternative service and the 1914 generation. It means they are totally unreliable out of incompetence or due to manipulating the Bible as it suits them at the time.
Mad:
Mad writes: O Wise HellRider- your ignorant words betray you! You know better- if you really know what "stauros" means, and if you've done ANY research on your OWN about the cross in religion! If she listens to you- she shouldn't bother thinking.
You have absolutely no clue about what you`re talking about. Open any greek-english dictionary, and you will find that "cross" is a side-meaning to "stauros" (unless you are using a jw-publication, of course). You should start by reading this essay, published on this forum:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/92381/1.ashx
Mad writes:"Real Theologians" that promulgate the First Lie (Satan) to Eve- You Will NOT Die! :"Real Theologians" that make Christ a liar, saying the dead have never died at all- but have always been resurrected & judged- sent to Heaven, Hellfire, Purgatory or Limbo! Your spouting almost makes me wish in Hellfire- for decievers like you.
Blah, blah, blah.
Well, it isn`t. You`d have to falsify early church history beyond recognition for that to be the case. In fact, this is the biggest lie of them all, promoted by the Watchtower.
Mad writes: He MUST be right; Christ wore a Pointy Hat, his Apostles were really called Reverends, and were paid to preach in fancy buildings! HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO WRONG????
Same as above. You could start by reading what the early church fathers themselves wrote (which you, judging from your blatant ignorance still haven`t done), here:
Mad: If you continue getting all your information from Awake magazine, you will stay a retard all your life. But you`re on this forum, and that means that you can read. So you can start by reading the above mentioned articles and publications. Good luck.
I, for one, think your first post demonstrates a way above average intelligence.
Your DECISION won't really be about whether Jehovah's Witnesses have some kind of Bible Truth which trumps all other religious choices.
No.
Yours is a social decision.
You are really facing a choice about how you are going to spend your time and who you spend it with (until you are too old to care.)
If you choose the local Kingdom Hall your fate is sealed. There will be a lot of butt-in-the-folding chair time listening to untalented people drone on and on and on. After a while you won't even hear what they are actually saying. It will become a habit. You'll feel obligated to be there rather than creating a life full of possibility and self-adventure.
It all comes down to your character and personality. Are you an original thinker? Or...do you like being told what to think and don't mind keeping your thoughts to yourself?
How much stupidity can you swallow with a pasted on smile?
How many times can you muster up the enthusiam to tell a stranger the world is coming to an end VERY soon?
How convincingly can you proclaim a provably wrong pronunciation of god's name to be the most important thing you can say?
How wonderful does it feel to have power-tripping men with high school educations judging the way you dress and conduct your private life?
Are you willing to turn your back on your dearest friend or relative if their eyes open to a conscience ripping dissonance in doctrine which they can't pretend is unimportant?
Do you like knocking on doors and interrupting people's lives to sell them magazines which have a track record of 100% wrong predictions while pretending it is worth dying for?
Can you swallow the odds that everybody else in the world just happens to be wrong and you are lucky enough to be right?
Then, GO FOR IT! The worst that can happen is that you'll be like me and wallow in Absolute Certainty right up until the time the Kingdom Hall door slams in your face and you are left blinking back the tears you must spill over a life wasted mouthing ridiculous nothings empty of content and utterly absurd, then, watch your dearest friend turn away as though you shit your own pants.
Or, better still.....volunteer to work with handicapped children or in battered women's shelters for a couple of months first and see what kind of difference your life can make to others BEFORE you become a Jehovah's Witness--because, you see, THEY WON'T ALLOW YOU to help others in a meaningful way.
You might suddenly see the difference between pretend and genuinely real contributions to the lives of others.
The choice is real enough.....and so are the consequences.
Morn' Hellrider! Love your sarcasm- even if you're being dishonest with yourself!
Mad
