Why can't I love Jehovah my own way?
Because it's bad for the tax exempt businesses posing as religions that need your hard earned sweat, devotion and money to survive.
Convince me
by Liza 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
Who are you?
-
Guest with Questions
Hi Liza
First, I’m not going to tell you not to join the Jehovah Witness Organization. That is totally your decision. I just hope you become informed before you make that step.
I’m not a witness and never have been. I think many on this site who are x-witnesses can better tell you what they experienced.
I can only tell you what I have learned about this org. Because of my mother (who has been a witness for over 30 years) I felt the need to find out what this org was all about. For me, the more I study my own bibles (NIV, KJV) the more I feel that this org is very wrong on many issues.
You have made a number of comments which I believe are wrong and unfair.
Jehovah's Witnesses use an edition of the Bible that is translated directly from Hebrew and Greek to modern English. Other churches use one that has been courrupted through centuries of Catholic papacy and censorship.
Can you show proof that this is true or were you told this by a witness?
The NWT is unique to the JW org just like the Book of Mormon is unique to them (by the way, they also they claim that they have the sole truth and that all other religions are false)
I asked a number of witnesses who the translators were and none could tell me because they didn’t believe in disclosing the names because it shouldn’t be about the translators. My feeling is, if you go to a doctor you want to make sure he is qualified; that if he tells you his name and qualifications, it doesn’t fill him with pride but puts you at ease that he is qualified.
The New World Translation committee consisted of four members of the Jehovah’s Witness Organization.
Nathan Knorr
: President of the Watchtower Society (no academic training in any Biblical language)Fred Franz:
(no academic degree in any Biblical language, though he did study Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati)Albert Schroeder:
(no academic training in any Biblical language)George Gangas:
(no academic training in any Biblical language)Numerous qualified Greek scholars of international renown have voiced serious reservations about the New World Translation. Dr. Bruce Metzger of Princeton University (arguably the world’s foremost living Greek scholar) calls many of the New World Translation’s renderings "erroneous" . Dr. Julius R. Mantey (co-author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament and A Hellenistic Greek Reader) called it "a shocking mistranslation". Dr Robert Countess concluded, in his PhD dissertation on the New World Translation, "it [the New World Translation] must be viewed as a radically biased piece of work. At some points it is actually dishonest". Dr. Julius R. Mantey was quoted out of context in Watchtower literature as though he supported John 1 and the word was a god, which he doesn’t believe and he wanted a retraction which I don’t know if he ever got.There were a number of other scholars who were quoted out of context.
Contrary to what a witness said to me, the scholars of the KJV are known. Some are listed on this site: http://www.allabouttruth.org/king-james-version-faq.htm
You really need to decide which bible you’re going to accept - the New World Translation or all the other bibles accepted by mainline churches (KJV, NIV etc) These bibles are very different from the NWT regardless what the witnesses say. If you have the NWT and some other versions check them out for yourself. Check the Internet for comparison of different bible translations (just make sure they are a reliable site and cross check to make sure your bibles truly say the same thing)
But don’t take my word for it. Don’t take the organizations word for it either. Look into it yourself apart from the org. before you commit to them. Once you are baptized it will become very difficult for you to leave and that would be very tragic if you have family members still in the org.
Good Luck
-
jgnat
Convince you? Convince yourself. It is your life, I don't have to live it for you. You've brought a lot of random points up, Liza, but what is at the core of it all? Have you thoroughly studied other religions to see if the Watchtower society says about them is true? In case you haven't heard, here are the core beliefs of nearly every Christian religion:
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
You've challenged the questionable history of the Witnesses. Why do you accept the Witness version of Christendom's history? I suggest you've barely scratched the surface on that one.
http://chi.gospelcom.net/index.php
Now, what is at the CORE of the Jehovah's Witness doctrine? That is, if you don't believe it, you cannot be a JW. Is it smoking, abstainaing from blood, Christmas, holidays? I suggest all these prohibitions are simply manifestations of the Witness faith, not the essence. Because the plain truth is that the society has changed it's stance on many of these prohibitions through the years.
So what is the core JW belief then? I believe it is to obey the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", or in a practical sense, the Governing Body through the literature it sponsors. If this is the core of what you are prepared to follow, go ahead. But do it with your eyes wide open. If the Governing Body were to instruct you to follow life-threatening advice, you are bound to follow it.
-Jehovah's Witnesses use an edition of the Bible that is translated directly from Hebrew and Greek to modern English. Other churches use one that has been courrupted through centuries of Catholic papacy and censorship.
Not true. When it came to translating "Lord" in the Greek scriptures, the Jehovah's Witnesses chose a later translation to support their use of "Jehovah". The most reliable English translation I am told, is the Jerusalem Bible. I suggest you check it out.
-Jehovah's Witnesses always quote the Bible to back of their belifs.
So? Many churches do. Nothing special there.
I want to become a psycology researcher\fiction writer\illustrator when I grow odler and get out of college. But I think my work will promote love toward God and his wisdom.
Then I suggest you continue worshipping God in your own way, and give the Witnesses a wide berth. Otherwise you will have to sublimate your own beliefs in order to be obedient to the 'slave'.
-Why can't I love Jehovah my own way?
Great thought. I say run with it.
-
IP_SEC
So what if C.T Russel was a freemason and dabbled in the occult? Studying the bible may have made him change his ways. Afterall lots of changes to rid the congregation of pagan influence have continued past his death. Jehovah's Witnessses used to use the cross as a symbol, and celebrate holidays and birthdays. But upon discovering that holidays and birthdays originated as pagan celebrations to honor certain false dieties have stopped. The cross is also a pagan derived symbol, and so is the "Holy" Trinity which can be traced from ancient Egyptian and Chinese cults. The only thing that would concern me, is if occult dabbling has effected his interpretation of the Bible.
Who knows or who cares what CTR did or thought? May have changed him?? Well you already have the witness spec talk down. It could be argued that Christianity itself is based on earlier pagan cults.
-Watchtower is a pagan symbol?
Yes it is.
Please. Watchtowers were used by the Isrealites to watch out for incoming enemies. Similarly, the Watchtower magazine helps strengthen the faith of those who find the truth against it's enimies.
True, and no serious WTS detractor makes this claim about the watchtower's name and symbology.\
-The idea that the ressurection is "too good to be true" or is "nonsense" is a mere opinion. For one thing Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that only they would be saved.
Yes they do
Other mainstream churches think they are the only ones that will be saved.
That makes it ok?
Most of the moral restrictions are on the 144,000.
Bullshit
-The true religion does not preach hate, only hate to what is bad, but not who is bad. Other mainstream churches preach hate toward muslims and gays. Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. They did not listen to "Thou shall not murder".
Yes, you are correct. All religion pretty much sucks
-If people are going to go to heaven and hell when they die, how come even mainstream church bibles always speak of a ressurection too? How come even Jews and Muslims recognize that a new paradise will come to Earth?
Why do you keep coming back to what mainstream religion says? Whats that got to do with JWs?
-How can Jesus be god if even he himself said he was the Son of God?
How can I be a father and a son at the same time?
-Jehovah's Witnesses use an edition of the Bible that is translated directly from Hebrew and Greek to modern English. Other churches use one that has been courrupted through centuries of Catholic papacy and censorship.
Find out if you can what the scholarly creds of the NWT translators were. And!!! the whole bible even the JW version is a product of papacy censorship... do so research.
-Jehovah's Witnesses always quote the Bible to back of their belifs.
I can quote the bible and prove that there is a flying spagettii monster
-Much of Jehovah's morals can have secular benifits, for they are his wisdom. For example, it has been discovered that condoms aren't very effective when it comes to AIDS.
Who says these are Joehoovahs morals?
-The congregation is supposed to be based off the the pre-Catholic Christians.
Yes... supposed is the word... again, do some research about the first christian congo
-
IP_SEC
-Even my Catholic relatives recognize that the last days are comming, since a day for God can be a very long time for humans, it may be centuries till the New System comes. The signs are there, the feet of clay and iron that is the last empire. That last empire being the US, and Republicans being iron and Democrats being clay. The blashpemous unity of church and state being represented by the whore that rides the wild beast. And a grea tribulation that may come, and think that maybe the Bush Administration may have something to do with it. Also that in 1914 WWI started, and an event in the middle east there was triggered whose effects still occur today with the constant chaos of the middle east.
People have always thought we were in the last days... we're talking about 2000 years now. Do some research
However I also have my own doubts:
Dont expect the dubs to ever take kindly to your doubts.
-I do not think that humans have been here a mere 6,000 years. I think for example that Noah's flood may have happened 10-18,000 years ago and have triggered the ice age.
Well that tears it. You cant get baptized believing this
-During a convention when I was about eight years old, I heard about a brother whose mother was sick in the hospital. He and his wife prayed to Jehovah God, and later on his mother got better. Is this a miracle? If so then the congregation has stated before that miracles would no longer happen and any such "miracles" are works of demons and Satan to misguide people from the truth. But Jehovah may have just given his mother the strength to get better.
Yes conventions are full of these urban legends... get used to it.
-I think that, just the way that children can make up wild fantasies and superstions, pagan cults and belifs may not have been entirely inspired by satan. Though they may have been perpetuated by satan to stray the practitioners from the truth. Rather such beliefs were formed by people searching for explanations and spirituality.
lol... you believe in satan lol
-Sometimes my faith in a creation is sometimes blurred when I see the similarities between monkeys and humans. For one I may be a girl but I am also quite hairy. My cousin has a pet monkey and when I went to visit him I almost viewed the monkey as not just looking but behaving very human like.
lol ok no comment
-The greek words may be misinterpreted or "lost in translation"
Yes esp if the translators have no education in koni greek. BTW the translators of the NWT had no education in koni greek.... hmmm
-I think that my secular experiences by themselves have made me a better person. And that suffering can indeed improve some and thier outlook in life. Though many people have been reforned by becoming Jehovah's Witnesses, so have people in mainstream churches and even spiritual organizations like Kabbalah.
Im getting tired if someone wants to take up this one
-
wanderlustguy
The real question is...and it's only one question, easy one.
Read up some of the posts and stories here. Read tons. Then decide if these people are under Satan's influence and/or are are no longer JW's because they want to live in filth. Make up your mind.
Now...IF what the society has told you about US is not true...what makes you think anything else is?
WLG
-
IP_SEC
-If I keep fearing Jehovah all the time, I don't think I will be happy. I have been told that Satan wants us to see God as a totalitarian dictator, but isn't the congregation's constant injection of fear just this?
Yes you are correct
-The congregation says that homosexuality is unatural. But then why do animals do it too? But then again animals don't always mate for life either.
Because it is a genetic as well as a learned trait
-I have heard rumors about a "cult of Mithras". That the story of Jesus was inspired by a greek sun god named Mirthras who also raised the dead, healed the sick, and "walked on water" like the sun, and was "the light of the world". But some say that it was many years after Jesus and was inspired by Jesus instead of the other way around. The Jehovah's Witness publication of "Mankind's search for God" says that "Why would people risk their lives and stand firm against something false?" in response to this speculation.
It is a fear tactic to keep people from investigating this idea and seeing it for themselves
-What defines a marriage? Isn't a commited relationship enough? Doesn't legally married mean getting a marraige licesce from of all organizations...the GOVERNEMENT?
Do you really want to join a religion that trys to control your thoughts..... To tell you to believe things contrary to your good sense?
-Why can't I love Jehovah my own way? I want to become a psycology researcher\fiction writer\illustrator when I grow odler and get out of college. But I think my work will promote love toward God and his wisdom.
You can... unless you join the jws
Good luck
bye
-
IsaacJS2
I have to admit that I'm a little confused here. I don't have much interest in convincing anyone of anything. Contrary to what the Society claims, most ex-Witnesses are not rabidly crazy and have other things to do with their lives. You will have to do most of the work on this. Most of us are willing to talk about these things, but what you do is your own business.
BTW, some of the things you said don't make sense to me or are directly contradicted by what I was taught by the WTS. These could be things that have changed. They are infamous for changing their doctrines, but others have also spotted the differences here on the board already. I would recommend that you get the points you raised clarified before getting baptized. Bear in mind that Witnesses will often tell little-white-lies if they don't think you're ready to hear something yet, so you should really ask more than one person about them. Not all of them will do this, but plenty of them will.
For instance, I know of no difference in the "moral requirements" of the 144,000 vs the great crowd. They are the same. I have heard the Society say that it isn't guaranteed that people who have never had the chance to speak with a JW will be killed by Jesus during Armageddon, but only rarely and not in a long time. They usually go on to say that this is just a guess and that no one should count on that. Besides, if their numbers are true, then 100s of millions of people have heard and billions will die at Armageddon. There version of God is going to commit a holocaust that makes Hitler's look like a joke, while giving nearly everyone else that has already lived and died a free ride. I'm sorry, but the notion that the world is more "wicked" than ever before is just bologne. This is the kind of right-wing pandering that get's on my nerves; statistically, many things are actually better than ever before. The fact is that some things just get better, some things just get worse, and a hundred years from now the numbers could swing in reverse. That's the way it's always been and will probably be for a very long time if not forever.
Any way, my reasons for staying away from the WTS have nothing to do with scripture. I am not very impressed by most religions I'm afraid. It is the Society's policies and how they manipulate people that make me see them as harmful. Almost everything they do has a psychological basis, each of them small by themselves but there are so many that they add up.
I would suggest you look for information on cults and how cult experts and mental health experts test for them. Search for info online and then come back and discuss that with us. I believe some may have posted lists here that show how the Society fulfills the requirements of a cult using a wide assortment of various models to test.
Finally, think about the daily grind of a WT slave. To my mind, they are really just a very clever publishing house that indoctrinates millions of people into being lifelong subscribers to their wares. Think about it. The Witnesses peddle their literature for free. Their children work the presses for virtually nothing. Then they all turn around and buy the stuff (through donations) and often at a higher price because they are constantly reminded to do so to help the cause. The Witnesses are the Society's cash cow! You need all those new books and magazines for the meetings and the conventions often make a big deal about every new thing they produce. If they give someone the litature who doesn't donate for it, the Witness is admonished to donate for it instead! The Society is worth well over a billion dollars thanks to their slave labor force. And it's all tax free.
That's just an outline of my views. Think what you want (while you still can). It's your decision. I'm willing to bounce ideas around about what they do and why it's wrong, but I'm not campaigning against them or anything like that. If I were, they'd still have a strangle hold on my life as they once did. Nuh-uh, not for me. You must make up your own mind on this one. Discussions are still welcome, though.
IsaacJ
-
Hortensia
Convince you? Who cares? You get to live your life your way. If you can read all the experiences related on the JWD forum and still think that religion is OK, hey honey, go for it. I was in it for 32 years, a lot longer than you, and I say it is an evil cult. I know what I am talking about.
-
knock knock
Why can't I love Jehovah my own way?
You can. But not as a Jehovah's Witness. If you want to join their club you have to play by their rules. If you don't play by their rules they'll kick you out and color you dead. But, not to worry, you can always come back here with your updated story to tell.
BTW, I learned a new word today. Troll I think it was.
edited for no good reason (didn't see that one on the list)