Convince me

by Liza 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    -I do not think that humans have been here a mere 6,000 years. I think for example that Noah's flood may have happened 10-18,000 years ago and have triggered the ice age.

    You sound like a very intelligent person. One who does not blindly believe. One that wants facts to back up assertions.

    You will not do well in this religion. If you become baptised and still believe this foolishness, and worse yet attempt to speak your doubt audibly to another human being, at first the elders will be mildly upset. Should you state that you still believe it, you could be disfellowshipped for "causing divisions" in the congregation. Then your mother, who has now become more well adjusted, will be forced to shun you completely as though you are dead. No contact whatsoever unless there is some dire family emergency, and this is if she chooses to. If you have read stories on this forum, you will know that many posters found out their parents/relatives died through reading it in the newspaper.

    You would have been forced to "believe" prior to 1995 that the generation that was alive and at an age of understanding in 1914 would not pass off the scene until Armageddon. Any who had voiced concern with this date were disfellowhipped. With the publication of the WT article in 1995, you could now no longer believe the prior information published for years as Divine Truth. If you question this, you could be disfellowshipped and shunned by your family........

    As of this writing, a big controversy is going on with the year 1935. For many years the WTS said that the annointed calling was closed in this year, and that any who claimed to be of the annointed after this were clearly replacements. Now they are waffling over this teaching. As a matter of fact, the number that they count at the memorial each year of annointed "partakers" keeps increasing. I don't know exactly what an active JW is supposed to believe right now, but if you get baptized, you'd better find out, so that you do not reason on it for yourself. If you question what they currently teach you could be disfellowshipped and shunned by your family..........

    If you do make a mistake in this religion, you may or may not encounter men that will strip you of every shred of dignity and self worth that you now posess. They did this with my teen daughter, a straight A student who had never been in trouble. She did not do half the things I did when I was a teen (not a witness) but they decided not to discuss the couple of stupid teen things she did do and to accuse her of fornication. For over two and one half hours they kept forcing her to read scriptures that compared her to Korah, Annanias and Sapphira (Who fell down dead because they lied) and everyone else in the Bible who was a bad example and was punished by God with death. When she finally would not admit to fornication (after they had admitted there was no witness, and no accusation of fornication by anyone) they told her they would not believe her. They demeaned and insulted her in every way possible, then made her read a scripture from Revelation that God views fornicators and liars as filth, and she would burn in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. Then they disfellowshipped her. She is not shunned by her family. Instead, the WTS is shunned by us.

    Whatever decision you make is yours to make. But please go into this with both eyes wide open. Oh, and you will never be allowed to look at this web site again. You could be disfellowshipped and shunned by your family..............

  • new boy
    new boy

    They don't preach hate?

    Join............then try leaving.........see what you have left.

    If you want to know about their love just read my bio.

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    Hi lisa. I was raised a JW. Now I see the light!!! When your done with your research on the WTBTS you should do research on the bible, trust me you will be suprised.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Liza: The true religion does not preach hate, only hate to what is bad, but not who is bad.

    I would say the true religion teaches love, because I believe the true religion is characterized more by the things it positively advocates and does rather than by the things it avoids advocating and doing.

    My parents do not speak to me simply because I rejected their religion and disassociated myself. I have not taken up any habits that would get me disfellowshipped aside from posting my heartfelt thoughts on a forum predominantly peopled by apostates. I am still an avid student of the Bible. I speak freely with anyone who wants to know my viewpoints on pretty much anything (i.e. I am an opinionated boor ). None of my family save my wife (who is still a JW) and my brother (who is disfellowshipped) speak to me.

    Please tell me: What kind of love is this? Is this something you could really imagine Jesus' supporting?

    When the Pharisees cast out a man born blind because he confessed Jesus as the one who healed him, Jesus immediately sought him out and asked him to be his follower. If the parallel were drawn today, who would be playing the part of the Pharisees? And Jesus chose them?

    So, I am convinced. Are you?

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    The true religion does not preach hate, only hate to what is bad, but not who is bad. Other mainstream churches preach hate toward muslims and gays. Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. They did not listen to "Thou shall not murder".

    Well....I could say convince me you are a good person and I might listen. How would you do that? By telling me that you have good morals? That you are kind to people? Convince me of your goodness.

    You see - the watchtower teaches all of its members that anything to do with and anyone in the world - who is not one of them - is bad. Bad association. Beware of those 'in the world'. Don't socialize with them. They are in satan's world - bad association - run away before they pull you in. If that isn't preaching hate then I ask you what is???? If that isn't preaching hate and fear, then what is??? If that isn't preaching hate, fear and prejudice - then what is????

    Why tell us that the watchtower doesn't preach hate when they do and compare it to other churches that preach hate toward muslims and gays? That's usually a way for people to justify their own prejudice and hatred - called denial ..you can say to yourself, I'm a JW, I don't hate anyone, look! I go to your door to spread the good word and save you so that proves I'm good. The watchtower by its own shunning policy teaches hatred and hatred for its own people who are disfellowshipped. There isn't one JW that I know that can tell me that they don't hate the person who they are shunning because love doesn't destroy people. Unconditional love for your children will not allow you to shun them but when you love the watchtower first, when you love what it teaches you - its easier to hate everything that doesn't fit inside the rules.

    Thou shalt not murder? The watchtower has been responsible for thousands of deaths by its own doctrines. It has been the death of thousands of families because of its own policies. Just like their bible - I suppose its all a matter of interpretation isn't it? sammieswife.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    The best advise on this thread IMHO is to take your questions to the Elders and then sit back and watch the love pour your way...

    When you find yourself disillusioned by that you might attempt to stop looking for pat answers to life's complex questions

  • Liza
    Liza

    I am still going to be rather neutral here.

    Okay, I just came back from a JW meeting this morning.

    -I noticed something funny. The sisters I spoke to said that there are two types of ressurections: The ressurection of the rightous and the ressurection of judgement. Yet in today's meeting it seemed like only the "righteous" would be ressurected. They point to a verse in Proverbs stating that "who will reside in Jehovah's tent?" and that only the righteous will. I think it's because if they emphasise this point it would be like "Then what's the point?" and it is said that the JW will teach the unrighteous for 1000 years.

    But here are some things I'd like to ask:

    -That God will commit a massive holocaust? Well didn't he do that when bringing Noah's flood? And dosent' the traditional view of the Apocalypse hold this belief?

    -I think there's more to Jesus than just having faith in Jesus. Afterall don't more mainstream churches hold almost identical views as the JW to immorality? (Hence the internet joke: "Every time you mastrubate, God kills a kitten")

    -Where in the Bible does it support a Holy Trinity? Don't pagan religons also have them? How can Jesus be on Earth when God reacted to his death? (with an earthquake)

    -What about the pictures of the Hebrew text in the "Insight" book that show Jehovah's name?

    However:

    -I think you do have a point that it's because it's the faith I've been raised in.

    -Since I am not baptized, maybe that's why I am not experiencing the awful things people talk about here. It distrubs me that even Bethel members and elders have become apostates.

    -Are there any Bible versions that question the validity of the NWT?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    It sounds like you're still sweating the small stuff.

    How many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Is that what the gospel of Jesus Christ was about?

    If you're genuinely interested in Christianity then you should probably take a look at what mainstream Christians really believe, rather than accepting what the WTS (as a biased source) has to say. Your comments on immortality are a dead giveaway as to your ignorance on the subject (and I don't mean that in a perjurous sense - its just obvious that you simply don't know...)

  • Liza
    Liza

    Yes I am ignorant, remember this is the only religious group I have really known.

    Enlighten me.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Liza: What about the pictures of the Hebrew text in the "Insight" book that show Jehovah's name?

    They don't show the name "Jehovah", they show the Hebrew letters YHWH, or Yodh Heh Waw Heh. Jehovah is not and never has been the correct pronunciation of the Hebrew name YHWH, it is not even a close approximation. How would you feel if 6,000,000 people claimed to know you and claimed you were their friend but they couldn't even pronounce your name correctly?

    Liza: Are there any Bible versions that question the validity of the NWT?

    Not as such, no. The NWT is not usually considered mainstream enough to merit serious scholarly challenge. However, there are serious differences between the NWT and Wescott and Hort text they supposedly used as a guide in translation.

    Somehow I think you haven't researched all the things we have already given you. If you want to find reasons to be a JW you really need no reason beyond your personal choice.

    If translational integrity is a hot button for you, how do you account for their adding the Anglican name Jehovah 237 times into the NT text? Or do you only ask questions ...

    Cautiously,
    AuldSoul

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