I'm a Liar

by Perry 107 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Fred E Hathaway
    Fred E Hathaway

    to found-my-way:

    Jehovah's way through is working much better than trying to convince a "professional counselor" of the values I'm wanting to live by. Since they don't live by these values themselves, their "advice" was irritating, which only adding confusion to the problems I was needing to address.

    Finding JWD has helped me with my focus. Using my knowledge to help others has helped myself in the process. I hadn't understood boundaries very well since I was quite reclusive prior to joining JWD. (Even when I was considered an active JW, I did most of my activities as a lone Witness.) Having a "strong need to belong to a group" may well explain why I am actively involved on JWD…. Indeed, I was abused as a child. The physical abuse had unintended sexual side-effects since it continued for 2 years after I became pubescent. (I was hit, often as many as 50 strokes, by my dad's narrow leather belt on my bare behind while I was laid across my bed.)

    I am responsible for the choices I've made in life. I accept the consequences of my actions. My hope is in Jehovah and the Kingdom arrangement, not in the training of those opposed to it.

  • found-my-way
    found-my-way

    ohhhhh Fred, reading your account of the abuse you suffered just breaks my heart....

    I can understand why some therapists would be irritating...there are therapists who understand how you feel about your faith, and will stick to how your childhood shaped the way you think, and was behind your behavior towards others....I can see how you were possibily starved for natural affection....and went about seeking it in an inapproporiate way with others....which is understandable, since you were never taught normal interation, and never given your own personal space and freedom. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

    I just hope that you can understand why so many here have left, and why we loath JW apologists reasoning, since you cannot see the lies staring right at you, the back and forth doctrines, the lack of love, the obsurd abuse requirement of 2 witnesses....which should not be the case when it comes to abuse of any sort, since abuse happens in private and behind closed doors.

    I hope you know that I care about you as a person, and that my love isn't conditional, it isn't based on wether or not you go to meetings, it isn't based on wether or not you even have a belief in God. It is purely based on the fact that you are a fellow human being. No strings attatched. No conditions.

    You will not find that in the organization, Fred, no matter how much they claim they have that love. By their fruits they prove that they do not have God's backing or spirit. They have hurt so many people, not just a few, THOUSANDS. If God was behind this organization, God would not allow such heartless men in Brooklyn to bear His name and drag it through the mud as the WTBTS has, and tell outright LIES to its followers.

    They are the pharisees that Jesus soundly rebuked, the burden they place on the brother's and sister's is HEAVY not, kindly and light, like Jesus's yoke.

    I wish you could see that.....

    ~found

  • Who are you?
    Who are you?
    Jehovah's way through is working much better than trying to convince a "professional counselor" of the values I'm wanting to live by. Since they don't live by these values themselves, their "advice" was irritating, which only adding confusion to the problems I was needing to address.

    Fred....maybe you would do better to not confuse the two issues. In the same way that you would not go to a "professional counselor" for a more complete understanding of the scriptures, then you should not accept that learning about the deeper aspects of the issues you are dealing with can be accomplished from the advice of unqualified elders.

    The JW's often critisize the Catholic church for advising people to say three "Hail Mary's" and ridicule them saying that such meager statements will certainly not cure serious problems, but in cases like yours the JW elders are doing the exact same thing....only they say read a few scriptures and pray and modify your behaviour when you are around other JW's. But what about Fred in the real world?

    You go on to say that JWD has helped you. Were you instructed to come here by elders? Probably not. There is life before and after the 5 meetings a week.

    Your well intentioned and admirable efforts at behaviour modification should not rest exclusively on the advice of elders who's primary concern is how you interact with JW's. They live with Fred a few hours a week. You live with Fred 24/7.

    The "professional counselor" you do for Fred, so that no matter what happens in your life from here on out, you have sufficiently gotten to the root cause and effect of your behaviour, and your future success rests in your hands.

  • Fred E Hathaway
    Fred E Hathaway

    to found-my-way:

    ohhhhh Fred, reading your account of the abuse you suffered just breaks my heart....

    I can understand why some therapists would be irritating...there are therapists who understand how you feel about your faith, and will stick to how your childhood shaped the way you think, and was behind your behavior towards others....I can see how you were possibily starved for natural affection....and went about seeking it in an inappropriate way with others....which is understandable, since you were never taught normal interaction, and never given your own personal space and freedom. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me.

    Thanks for the empathy. My situation is more complicated than that, in fact. My parents each had their own view: my dad being critical of those that would try to stand up to his incorrect world view (he always insisted on control), while my mother was too scared of losing us children to the "Government." We were in a non-demoninational Bible study group that didn't produce any of their own literature, other than personal letters, which received little circulation. One would have to have inside knowledge of the group to understand the boundaries I grew up to know.

    I just hope that you can understand why so many here have left, and why we loath JW apologists' reasoning, since you cannot see the lies staring right at you, the back and forth doctrines, the lack of love, the absurd abuse requirement of 2 witnesses....which should not be the case when it comes to abuse of any sort, since abuse happens in private and behind closed doors.

    I've always lived in a treacherous world. I just have a clearer idea as to what much more of the Bible is about, and I see more accountability among those who lead the flock than I did in the group I was with before. We still live in a time on the Earth when the wheat and the bearded darnel grow intermixed. Only Satan and his demons have been separated from their still-Heavenly former-associates. The spirits still have to be discerned, whatever one reads. Imperfection is still among us, so we're inclined to slips of various kinds, at all levels. Some things seem absurd in a moment of time that years later one sees as the only way that something could get rooted out properly. There's a time for everything under the Sun. "Abuse" depends a lot on the system of thought employed by the subculture(s) involved. Spiritual education and reliance on Jehovah are the only clear paths to freedom from it. Depending on perspective and personality, one person's victimization may be another one's pleasure. There are sado-masochists, after all. Alcoholism and other forms of drug dependency is another form. Political debates and mind games is another. Violent sports is another....

    I hope you know that I care about you as a person, and that my love isn't conditional. It isn't based on whether or not you go to meetings. It isn't based on whether or not you even have a belief in God. It is purely based on the fact that you are a fellow human being. No strings attached. No conditions.

    You will not find that in the organization, Fred, no matter how much they claim they have that love. By their fruits, they prove that they do not have God's backing or spirit. They have hurt so many people, not just a few, THOUSANDS. If God was behind this organization, God would not allow such heartless men in Brooklyn to bear His name and drag it through the mud as the WTBTS has, and tell outright LIES to its followers.

    They are the Pharisees that Jesus soundly rebuked. The burden they place on the brothers and sisters is HEAVY, not kindly and light, like Jesus's yoke.

    I wish you could see that.....

    I have been shaped by my associations, as you have by yours. Love, to me, isn't acceptance. If it was, I'd accept Satan and his abusive world or much of it. To me, love is acting in harmony with Jehovah God's view, His principles of right and wrong, His knowledge of our varying motives and qualities, His knowledge of our abilities to change and to make different choices than we are used to. I think of Jehovah as the Master artist — we see His systems that produce a never-ending array of clouds and new sunrises/sunsets and lightning and seasons that change our surroundings — sometimes in ways we like, sometimes in ways we might not.

    We humans are all like a bunch of toddlers in comparison, forever distracted from the bigger picture with our petty peeves/arguments, even as Jesus' apostles were before Jesus died. Yet, after persecution, with the help of holy spirit, the apostles matured, as can we.

  • Fred E Hathaway
    Fred E Hathaway

    to Who are you?

    I don't consider the elders unqualified at all. Many of them have come from spiritually-sound families, which I did not. Many of them have been able to hold stable jobs for many years, even with no post-secondary education, which I have not. Many other them have had the blessing of helping others come into the truth and remain in association for many years, which I have not. Many have been through worse than I without falling victim to their own strengths, which I have not. The "professional counselor" is unacquainted with what I'm reaching for; the elders are not.

  • Who are you?
    Who are you?
    I don't consider the elders unqualified at all. Many of them have come from spiritually-sound families, which I did not. Many of them have been able to hold stable jobs for many years, even with no post-secondary education, which I have not. Many other them have had the blessing of helping others come into the truth and remain in association for many years, which I have not. Many have been through worse than I without falling victim to their own strengths, which I have not. The "professional counselor" is unacquainted with what I'm reaching for; the elders are not

    If this were true, then the JW's would not have the serious problems that they do. They're response to people who falter after they give their totally unqualified advice is to blame the advicee and give them the boot. Then they claim that their organization is clean. In reality their organization is stained by the blood of people who have followed their totally unqualified and unscriptural advice from "blood" to "shunning".

    The "professional counselor" can help you determine if what you are reaching for is reality or fantasy.

  • Fred E Hathaway
    Fred E Hathaway

    My counsellors are the writers of Holy Scripture. They are qualified by the holy spirit of Jehovah God. Living by Jehovah's principles and ways in the standard by which even your "professional counselor" will be judged by. Jehovah is the Hearer of prayer, after all. That's reality for me, no matter what consequences lie ahead.

  • Who are you?
    Who are you?
    My counsellors are the writers of Holy Scripture. They are qualified by the holy spirit of Jehovah God. Living by Jehovah's principles and ways in the standard by which even your "professional counselor" will be judged by. Jehovah is the Hearer of prayer, after all. That's reality for me, no matter what consequences lie ahead.

    Then why did you end up in this mess to begin with? Let me guess...because you did not follow the instructions of the elders.

    They have you coming and they have you going....but most of all they have you....hook, line and sinker.

  • Fred E Hathaway
    Fred E Hathaway

    I was born in a mess, to use your terminology. Understanding practical instructions from others has been a challenge, because I've only received it for about the last half of my life. Only Jehovah knows all about me. The rest of us, including me, are still trying to figure me out.

  • Who are you?
    Who are you?

    I was born in a mess, to use your terminology. Understanding practical instructions from others has been a challenge, because I've only received it for about the last half of my life. Only Jehovah knows all about me. The rest of us, including me, are still trying to figure me out.

    Fred, I understand the point that you are making. If you wanted to learn about Quantum Physics, you wouldn't consult the elders. If you wanted to learn the most effective way to train for a triatholon event, you wouldn't consult the elders. You get my point....seek help from the professionals. Good luck in your journey!

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