YOU "THINK" YOU KNOW.....BUT...YOU DON'T KNOW!!

by Terry 93 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Golf

  Very good post Terry. Question, Would Jesus in this day and age been INCORPORATED?
  
  
  Golf
• 

  Junction-Guy

  Good point Golf ! Churches arent required to incorporate, but most do. Once a church incorporates they are subject to much more rules and their freedom of speech is compromised. There are some churches who oppose incorporation because it makes the church a ward of the state. An incorporated church can not get involved in politics, can not endorse a candidate, can not do alot of things. Actually a tax exempt incorporated church is not supposed to preach against public policy. If a church speaks out against the war or government in general, they could be fined, but seldom are.
• 

  Justice-One

  Hardly a soul alive can give a coherent recounting of JW's beliefs.

  And with all the "new light" the above includes the Rank And File.
• 

  ICBehindtheCurtain

  Excellent thread Terry! I've often wondered about this. When talking to my mom who is a regular pioneer for quite a few years, I asked her how many people she has brought into this religion, her answer "0" none, nada, they either moved away, or just lost interest. I totally agree, the preaching mostly helps them stay busy. And boy would I love to know where the money is going!

  IC
• 

  bobld

  Very good post.They truely are a rich corporation.Like any corporation they have down sized to max their profits ie layoffs at Bethels,shut down farms..imagine they can't produce their own food cheaply.Look at the cash they receive via Insurance,Bank Accounts,Real Estate Wills and Trusts,etc,etc If 6000 Willed their Estate of $1million,thats $6billion and 3 million give $1thousand that another $3 billion plus look at their grab at conventions.All their request for money at congregation meeting when they annouce their resolutions ever 6 months.I am not sure why they request for a vote and how many are in attendance.Maybe something to do with the law of the land.Take their Real Estate ..Take an Assembly Hall of 10 thousand SQ.FT.@ $100 per sq.ft.is $1 million that low.Look at all the Real Estate they have.The mags/book placement is pennies,but like they say, take care of the pennies and the dollars will look after themselves.I do not know what they do with all the money,but they sure are RICH,RICH.They have to push R&F for new suckers to hand over their money and the scheme has been working very good for them.Look, this Corporation has been successful for over a hundred years of brain washing people into their believe system.Some of us can see their scheme but can't get out because of family.I know this post is to long but it's therapy.

  bobld
• 

  Terry

  But I submit that the majority fully believe they are playing a part in the spirit-directed management of God's interests on this planet.

  Well, not to go to "psychology" on you, but; any old thought can be a "belief". It is what we act on that truly describes what is alive in our thinking. The active belief is most telling in demonstrating our convictions.

  For example, think of the difference between REFUSING TO DO and ACTIVELY DOING. The structure of Jehovah's Witnesses idealogy lies in what they DON'T DO. They REFRAIN. That is a passive demonstration of belief.

  The only ACTIVE demonstration of a JW's belief is going door to door. In order to go door to door, the publisher has to refrain from OTHER ACTIVITIES which take up the same time. A choice is made which is most important. Golf, for instance, or door to door. Watching football on TV or door to door.

  It would never be acceptable for a brother to SAY his faith was strong if he did OTHER THINGS rather than door to door work. The elders would consider him spiritually sick if he claimed to believe preaching is most important if his own activity was demonstrating a desire to spend the weekend working overtime, for example, to earn money to buy a boat for fishing on the lake. You see what I mean? Belief would have to match the actual TIME SPENT.

  So too for the Watchtower governors and bigwigs at the top.

  The seeking of investments, determining what buildings are viable and entering negotiations for purchase of them is ALIVE with purpose and demonstrates long term planning, strategy and a plan that devolves into moving large sums of money around for profit. THAT IS ACTIVE! Actively building wealth while claiming the end is imminent is so dissonant that it screams : PHONEY BELIEF.

  Nobody gets rich passively.

  Jesus told the rich man to SELL ALL HIS BELONGINGS and to join his ranks. The rich man was so disappointed he went away. Does this sound like belief? Or, does it sound like conflict?

  Jesus preached that we should live each day as though it were our last. If Jesus and the holy spirit were telling us the End was up ahead in the very near future---would we be working on our summer cabin in Yosemite? How much belief would we be demonstrating if we went about planning, purchasing and building that cabin if AT THE SAME TIME we were urging our friends, family and neighbors to get right with God and start preaching the end??

  You see the disconnect there?

  What the Watchtower elite preach does not match what the ACTUALLY DO THEMSELVES. That sends me a very strong signal that all is not what it appears.

  It may signal nothing to you.
• 

  Qcmbr

  As a charity aren't they forced to show $0 profit? Presumably there is a business part of the organisation that does pay taxes etc..?
• 

  _Atlas

  What the Watchtower elite preach does not match what the ACTUALLY DO THEMSELVES. That sends me a very strong signal that all is not what it appears.

  I agree that it simply does not make sense.

  It does not make sense that they keep buying property, that they do not use their resources to fund special interest programs, that they need shareholders and investors to lend them money… specially that there is a huge blackhole over their financial status.

  It does not make sense that they do not use the advantages of television, the internet, radio or many other technological inventions that will help spread their message effectively…

  Yet I do not think that they preaching one way and acting in another actually validates anything. They have way too many conundrums in their theology. They are notorious for their double standards on many issues. Usually these double standards apply to the individuals but not to the organizational procedures.

  The planning and careful preparation for the financial future of the org IMHO is another of those famous and strangely ambivalent principles they abide by… the organization carefully plans for the future while the individual is told not to. In fact individuals are encouraged to live for today and only today since tomorrow is not certain.

  But is that a sure sign that these men are motivated by something else than pure religious stupor?

  Also one has to take into account that many of these men were actually around for the 1930s, 1940s, 1980s and specifically 1975. So I guess they know better than to put all their eggs on one basket… they personally have felt the disappointment of failed dates.

  These men have lived modest lives preaching on the far reaches of the world for decades before they are selected to be part of the GB. During those days IMHO they become company men rather than avid capitalists. Company men so brainwashed that they are capable of the worst rationalizations humans are capable of.

  Still the fact that although a lot of help is needed to run a billionaire organization and so far no one has been able to pinpoint the supposedly ulterior motives of the WT finances, clashes with my gut wrenching feeling that something is askew with their motivations.
• 

  hillary_step

  Can somebody explain who is personally benefiting from the collection of these monies?

  Most posters on this thread seem to believe that unknown and unnamed persons within the WTS, are collecting and hoarding vast sums of money, for some purpose, not yet defined. Is anyone willing to at least try to define the motive for doing so?

  While the GB may be in a position to benefit from this cash if it were their desire to do so, I believe that they are more infatuated with the power of feeling that they are in God's right hand than with the avarice that comes with coin. It seems to me that most members of the GB, if not all, are actually as financially well off as Raymond Franz when he was forced to leave Brookyln. He had a few thousands dollars in his account, and later a stipend of $10,000 for his years of service. Ed Dunlap, registrar for Gilead candidates was turfed out of Brooklyn in his late 60's, penniless, and took up the career he left behind decades earlier, as a paperhanger. Somebody mentioned Greenlees earlier, well, he ended up his days living off a Special Pioneer allowance.

  I do not believe money motivates those in the higher echelons of the WTS. As I have noted above, they are actually a far greater danger in that their ideology feeds their motives, and their tool for growing and achieving this ideology is money, real estate etc. Though the face of the WTS seems more sinister and conspiratorial on the surface, this is just the lumbering gait of a very old and very large corporate organization. Remember, the WTS can count itself among some of the oldest businesses in the US and have not had much competition at what they do best. Many of its methods are subsequently dinosaurial in concept.

  HS
• 

  Confession

  The seeking of investments, determining what buildings are viable and entering negotiations for purchase of them is ALIVE with purpose and demonstrates long term planning, strategy and a plan that devolves into moving large sums of money around for profit. THAT IS ACTIVE! Actively building wealth while claiming the end is imminent is so dissonant that it screams : PHONEY BELIEF.

  The points you make are strong, but I don't think your conclusion is the only (or even the most valid) one. I'm certainly willing to believe that it could be the case. But there's just too much information that what Hilary says is true...

  I believe that they are more infatuated with the power of feeling that they are in God's right hand than with the avarice that comes with coin.

  Yes, it's true that their actions can be said to conflict with their words, but as Atlas writes...

  They are notorious for their double standards on many issues. Usually these double standards apply to the individuals but not to the organizational procedures.

  The WTS used to teach that after Armageddon, "God's Organization" would be prepared. They bragged about their self-sufficiency at Bethel and Watchtower Farms. I don't think they believed, post-Armageddon, they would all put on dreamy smiles and saunter off into one of their famous paradise scenes. Jehovah would spare their buildings so that Brooklyn would be the eathly command center from which the planet's restoration would be administered. They might have considered it prudent to have as much ready prior to Armageddon as possible.