JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...

AuldSoul

I have read several posts by posters who fervently hope JWs will become a mainstream religion, or will become "the truth," or will stop teaching this doctrine, or tweak that one, and "Oh, if they would only [fill in the blank]."

Such dreaming will, in the end, come to naught. There are practical reasons why.

(1) The rank and file have no authority over the Governing Body.

(2) The rank and file do not hold sway over any of the corporate interests.

(3) The vast majority of Memorial partakers are not credible in the eyes of the Governing Body, nor do they have any authority over anything.

(4) The organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which Jehovah's Witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see Lisa's interview with J.R. Brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.

(5) The Governing Body is unwilling to relinquish control over the organization, to share authority with underlings (e.g. eradication of Bethel elders), or to cease its pretense of Spirit direction.

(6) The members of the Governing Body are appointees of the Governing Body, the current Governing Body is directly descended from Corporate executives, not from any kind of spiritual body of believers.

(7) The lack of donations will not change doctrine. It is an End Times cult. It expects (and teaches) that eventually the love of the greater number will cool off before the end, also that the work of publishing "Good News" will cease. Such occurences will be a source of inspiration to continue in the same course, not a signal for change.

"Vote with our feet" and "vote with our wallets" only works with organizations that anticipate a lengthy future for themselves. There will be no significant shift toward mainstream reform for this organization, it expects that its seeming demise is imminent and looks forward to that tmie with a sense of gleeful anticipation.

Those who hoped for blood reform, what has happened? Currently, any JW may take a blood transfusion without any fear of being disfellowshipped. If it is discovered, however, it will be viewed as though they disassociated themselves. Identical announcement, same practical effect, only a different check mark on the card in the congregation files. Is that reform?

Although there is an appeals process for disfellowshipping, there is no appeal for disassociation. It is a different animal altogether, and the applications for this type of summary judgment (where the person's actions are seen as act of removing themselves from the congregation by their own choice) are vast.

I expect that a reform will be happening, and fairly soon (within the next few years). But I do not expect anything about this religion to become "mainstream" anytime soon, nor do I understand the basis for hope along those lines that seems to be retained by some. I see no indication of softening anything beyond their public image, which has always been a farce anyway.

Since Jehovah's Witnesses have provably never been God's organization, why would God fix it? I invite anyone who believes it will reform to state your case for hope. I don't really care why you think it should reform, I only want to know why you hold out hope that it will reform.

truthsetsonefree

You are probably dead on, as usual. Some exterior reform at most. Like Jesus said, "You cleanse the OUTSIDE of the cup and of the dish."

Although there is an appeals process for disfellowshipping, there is no appeal for disassociation.

Damn, I hadn't really thought about that. DA'ing is actually MORE powerful than df'ing.

blondie

Well, I certainly never had any expectations that "voting with your feet" or "voting with your pocketbook" would lead to reform and I'm sure I never said so. I can see it weakening the WTS though.

Blondie (voted with my pocketbook and then my feet)

stillajwexelder

unless they really get hurt in their pocket - the dollars -always the dollars

AuldSoul

blondie: I can see it weakening the WTS though.

Undoubtedly. I just don't think it will result in any doctrinal softening. I realize you have never said so, but there are some here who have used that as an argument in favor of the potential for reform.

As a side note on this point: I would think if monetary concerns were a huge factor in Governing Body decision making, Ray Franz would have mentioned it in his book. I haven't yet read In Search of Christian Freedom, perhaps he mentions it there. I'm not saying money does not play a part in their decisions, but I don't think money drives their decisions.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

blondie

Money determines the financial decisions of any corporation, even the WTS and its many corporations. I guess I wasn't clear about it not affecting any doctrinal decisions.

Rather than trying to guess what Ray Franz thinks based on his books, why not send him an e-mail?

Blondie

Narkissos

Nice to see you AS

I'm not particularly interested in forecasts about the WT fate, but I think no group escapes sociological "laws" (which were probably not designed yet work).

The bulk of the WT growth was prior to 1975. Since then, the sociological constitution of JWs has been shifting from a majority of converts to a majority of "born-in," with a growing proportion of multi-generation JWs.

I can't imagine JWs credible as a full-fledged end-time cult within 50 years. Not that there won't be room for end-time cults on the religious market, just because the WT structure will be too old and (if I dare say) too reasonable to play this role. Imo the only possibility for that would be the comeback of a Rutherford redivivus who would do away with all past doctrine (as Rutherford did with most of Russell's stuff) and build up urgency again on new premises. This is not impossible but unlikely -- the current and previsible leadership obviously lacks the creativity and charism to do that, and it's more difficult to impose such a change on a multi-million membership with an already heavy tradition than on a few thousands of confused Bible students. So slowly going "mainstream" and relinquish most of Rutherford and Franz stuff along Russell in the company museum seems like the only option in the long run.

Btw, which "reform" are you expecting? (Looks like you were begging the question )

proplog2

Early Christians were an end-time religion. It only worked for them for about 4 generations (30 x 4) or 120 years. Once you get to 4 generations you kind of lose your sense of urgency. Either something happens "soooooon" that vindicates them or they will disolve. They won't become mainstream. They won't reform. After 2014 they will all just fade.

Sunspot

I have read several posts by posters who fervently hope JWs will become a mainstream religion, or will become "the truth," or will stop teaching this doctrine, or tweak that one, and "Oh, if they would only [fill in the blank]."

This has always surprised me. Once I discovered what a confusing hornet's nest of lies and deception (all those "undeniable truths" that were taught over the years) were unique to the WTS, there WAS no going back!

All the reform in the world could not transform their teachings into anything that would resemble a form of religion that would appeal to anyone who had once been an obedient and loyal (tm) JW, IMHO. Any beliefs that bore the label of WTS should make us run the other way as hard and fast as possible.

Annie.....who's happy to see AuldSoul back here this morning!

TopHat

"Vote with our feet" and "vote with our wallets" only works with organizations that anticipate a lengthy future for themselves. There will be no significant shift toward mainstream reform for this organization, it expects that its seeming demise is imminent and looks forward to that tmie with a sense of gleeful anticipation.

Auldsoul? What demise are they looking for....do you mean to say they really believe Armaggeden is coming, and the governments will close them down during the GT?

JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...

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