JW Reform, It will NEVER happen...

by AuldSoul 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • dozy
    dozy

    While a "root and branch" reform will probably never happen , there are 2 factors which make some kind of change inevitable:

    1... 1914 . Ultimately , the Org is running out of time on this one. It is receding rapidly into the past and no longer seems credible. The WTS bought themselves some time in 1995 , but this date is increasingly looking weak and recent Watchtowers have tended to downplay any mention of the date , other than a general "the 20th Century saw the beginning on the last days". I suspect even many of the GB know in their heart of hearts that the calculations leading up to the date are probably suspect.The longer this system goes on (to use WTS parlance) , the more the r & f become restless.

    2... Branch Revolutions Many of the individual branch committees , especially those in non English speaking countries , have little loyalty to Brooklyn. It nearly happened before (Dublin in 1982) and it could easily happen again , that a whole branch will disagree fundamentally with NY - perhaps initially over some rather trivial issue - and disassociate itself (as it were) from the central Org.

  • Oroborus21
  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    Since Jehovah's Witnesses have provably never been God's organization, why would God fix it? I invite anyone who believes it will reform to state your case for hope. I don't really care why you think it should reform, I only want to know why you hold out hope that it will reform.

    I think this is the punchline; look at it this way, if it did reform, would it be any the better? Surely it would still represent the great apostasy?

    As Nark has expressed it, why be particularly interested in the fate of the WTS? A lie is a lie is a lie.

  • heathen
    heathen
    why be particularly interested in the fate of the WTS?

    because this religion defies logic to the point of generating interest in exactly how they manage to stay in buisness . Really no different than alot of other religion that still remain . besides what else do we have to do ?

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    Greetings,

    You might know my thoughts on the matter but since you asked for those of us who believe in reform to provide reasons, I shall state my case for posterity's sake.

    Generally, I prefer to use the term Revolution which necessarily includes reform but which I believe better reflects the strength of the internal pressures (democratic forces) and ultimately represents the end paradigm - namely a return to the beginning.

    In sum: I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are on the precipice of a unique point in their history. Due to the confluence of five motivating factors, and as a result of both internal and external pressures, Jehovah's Witnesses will soon (relatively speaking) undergo a major paradigm shift. This is a Revolution in every sense.

    Just as the Bible Students became Jehovah's Witnesses during the early 20th Century, it is now time, during the early part of the 21st Century, for Jehovah's Witnesses to return again to something akin to their International Bible Students beginnings. (Albeit without the more unsavory aspects of Russellism which burdens current Bible Students and the JW cousins.)

    Before elaborating on the reasons for this belief, let me take a moment to address the seven "practical obstacles" that you raised:

    Such dreaming will, in the end, come to naught. There are practical reasons why.

    (1) The rank and file have no authority over the Governing Body.

    This is absolutely true.

    But the objection fails to appreciate that reform, much less a Revolution, necessarily means a change of the status quo. It is not necessary to have authority over the Governing Body to induce reforms if that body itself becomes powerless.

    In other words, the entire objection rests upon the present adherence to the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine which props up the Governing Body as an authority.

    However, the facts are that the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine will inevitably be discarded or in the least extremely revised, either of which produce the outcome of it evaporating as a source of authority upon the congregations and the faithful. The principal reason why the FDS doctrine is doomed is due to several factors itself which are: a) the belief/teaching/understanding that some of the anointed (FDS class) will be alive at the onset of the Great Tribulation through to Armageddon and that only (as the scripture says) for their own sake will the days of trouble "be cut short;" b) the belief/teaching/understanding that the FDS class (anointed) were sealed as of 1935; and c) time, old age and death.

    These three factors comprise the Last Biological Clock teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses and it is ticking down to its last few seconds. In the not too distant future, the 8000+ anointed will begin to die at rates in excess of any so-called "replacements" to the group and the critical mass will be reached. The result will be in one of two choices for the Society: Choice A: begin seriously revising the FDS doctrine. Choice B: Discard the FDS doctrine.

    Choice A: Would probably include both an abandoment of the 1935 marker and the admission/revision that Revelation's 144,000 is NOT a literal number but represents symbolically "fullfillment" or "perfection of order." However, the likely consequence of that action would be for many more of Jehovah's Witnesses to express a Heavenly Hope placing them in the anointed class. This much larger group of anointed are going to demand more authority and recognize the falsity of the GB/FDS doctrine.

    Therefore, either outcome of the Last Biological Clock's critical mass alarm will result in the death knell of the FDS doctrine. With the end of the FDS doctrine, the authority of the GB becomes non-existent.

    (2) The rank and file do not hold sway over any of the corporate interests.

    True again. But this is not actually an obstacle to real reform. The future of Jehovah's Witnesses is to become locally controlled, self-governing ecclesias (congregations) of International Bible Students. They will own or rent only their local Kingdom Halls. There is no need for them to control the WTBTS corporate interests.

    The future of the WTBTS is to remove the religious facade and publicly reveal its true nature that developed in the 20th Century which is that it is a Publishing Corporation.

    The future and role of the WTBTS is to produce and sell literature and other media to Jehovah's Witnesses and the public, to train foreign missionaries, to provide special speakers as requested by the local congregations, and to coordinate and sponsor conventions. The future of the GB, if there will even be a body so named, will be to be responsible for the above.

    (3) The vast majority of Memorial partakers are not credible in the eyes of the Governing Body, nor do they have any authority over anything.

    I actually don't quite understand the first portion AuldSoul. It seems like you are saying that the GB doubt the sincerity or don't believe that current memorial partakers are part of the heavenly class. I have never seen any info or evidence of that. While a few may be questioned or challenged, most are accepted as anointed - at least to their own claim.

    As for the latter portion, this is of course true but rather than being an obstacle to reform it serves to further undermine the false FDS doctrine. The fact that the anointed as a body do not have any real power or involvement with "feeding the household" spiritual food is one which is dawning more and more upon Jehovah's Witnesses.

    After the Revolution, those having a Heavenly Hope will be much more numerous and many Jehovah's Witnesses will have the hope to live in the Earthly Paradise. But all will become partakers in the Eucharist.

    The WTBTS will do its thing as the Publishing Corporation that it is and JWs will do their thing as independent and loosely associated local congregations of believers. The local leaders, Elders and MSs (deacons and deaconesses), will be locally elected.

    (4) The organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which Jehovah's Witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see Lisa's interview with J.R. Brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.

    One of the factors impelling the Revolution is the greater access to information and greater transparency and consistency. As more JWs and outsiders learn about these discrepancies they will see the need to change. The point you raise above will produce consequences that motivate reform, it is not a barrier to it.

    (5) The Governing Body is unwilling to relinquish control over the organization, to share authority with underlings (e.g. eradication of Bethel elders), or to cease its pretense of Spirit direction.

    True, true and true. Also irrelevant in a state where the GB is meaningless due to the evaporation of the FDS doctrine. What your objection presupposes is that the only possible direction of change is that which is initiated by the Governing Body or some other persons with authority in the present hierarchy of the Organization. But when the paradigm shifts from the 20th Century Publishing Corporation model to the 21st Century's organic form of Intn'l Bible Students, these issues of control and authority will be rendered moot.

    (6) The members of the Governing Body are appointees of the Governing Body, the current Governing Body is directly descended from Corporate executives, not from any kind of spiritual body of believers.

    The pressures for reform are not all going to be from the top of the present hierarchy. There will be other internal pressures and external pressures.

    (7) The lack of donations will not change doctrine. It is an End Times cult. It expects (and teaches) that eventually the love of the greater number will cool off before the end, also that the work of publishing "Good News" will cease. Such occurences will be a source of inspiration to continue in the same course, not a signal for change.

    "Vote with our feet" and "vote with our wallets" only works with organizations that anticipate a lengthy future for themselves. There will be no significant shift toward mainstream reform for this organization, it expects that its seeming demise is imminent and looks forward to that tmie with a sense of gleeful anticipation.

    Those who hoped for blood reform, what has happened? Currently, any JW may take a blood transfusion without any fear of being disfellowshipped. If it is discovered, however, it will be viewed as though they disassociated themselves. Identical announcement, same practical effect, only a different check mark on the card in the congregation files. Is that reform?

    True the lack of donations will not change doctrine. And the reality is that the Society has enough financial reserves, capital and assets to weather any drought brought on by even a sustained boycott. Of course in the future it won't need as much either.

    By "voting with our feet" I assume you mean an exodus of current Witnesses walking away from the Organization all together. The fact is that whenever there have been large exoduses in the past the Org has underwent significant reform. Furthermore, there is currently an exodus going on and which has been going on. It produces an effect. This effect is correlated to the size of the exodus. If major reforms are not initiated in the future, there will be an even greater exodus and the effect will become obvious.

    As for a shift to the mainstream that is not the future of Jehovah's Witnesses, though in some sense a few doctrines may become closer to what is considered orthodox or mainstream Christianity. Jehovah's Witnesses are and will remain an Adventist faith. The major non-mainstream beliefs regarding the Trinity, Christ, Hell/Heaven, Immortal Soul, Resurrection, etc which sets it apart from some of the other Adventist cousins will be retained.

    Real reform is more than just adaptation and it is more than just change. Ideally reform produces beneficial results for all parties. But that is not an absolute qualification. Reform can be change that is significant enough to effect cultural identity and individual purpose.

    One thing that should not be forgotten is that reform has been a part of Jehovah's Witness history. In fact there have been several major reforms already.

    The second thing to consider is that the theology of JW presupposes that change is not only inevitable it should be welcomed. Jehovah's Witnesses see their Organization as God's Celestial Chariot which is on the move. This means that it does move and thus does change. So when change happens, JWs change also. Thus JWs are not only ready for reform they are in expectation of it.

    And now, Auld Soul, here are the reasons why the Revolution will occur....

    The Revolution

    The aim of the Revolution is the wholesale transformation of today's Jehovah's Witnesses into the largest semi-organized body of International Bible Students in the world. The Revolution is made possible by the recent convergence of five factors which have led to Jehovah's Witnesses reaching this remarkable and important point in their history.

    Factor #1: The Internet/WWW - Two Prongs of Information and Association

    Prong One: Access to Information

    The access to and the exchange in information, ideas and viewpoint created by the Internet is not only an unprecedented phenomenon in world history, it has monumental implications for the future of the Organization and religion of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    In the past, it was practically impossible, and dangerous, for any of Jehovah's Witnesses to access old and out-of-print Watchtower publications, to review counter-information, or to read about the facts and the experiences that others have presented.

    All of that changed during the last decade of the 20th Century when the Internet and World Wide Web dramatically came into vogue. The very existence of this website and your reading of these words right now is testimony to the power of the Internet. If you have gotten this far, there is nothing more that I need to say about this point because you probably already know.

    Prong Two: The Freedom of Association

    The advent of the Internet/WWW has made another thing possible which was frankly unthinkable before -- the association with other Jehovah's Witnesses who share your doubts, the association with ex-Witnesses who have something to say, and the association with non-Witnesses who also want to contribute.

    Such association and freedom of communication, without fear and censorship, was not possible before. Before the advent of the Internet, if a Witness raised questions or shared their doubts, and many past reformers attempted to do just that, they were quickly escorted to the door. And once outside the door, few if any on the inside could hear them, even if they wanted to.

    Free association makes possible another previous impossibility -- planning. Now persons interested in change may make plans, they may coordinate efforts, they may share ideas, share strategy, inform each other about what has worked and what doesn't and in short engage in what is necessary to further the Revolution.

    Factor #2: Higher Education - The Birthplace of the Questioning Mind Maybe it was unavoidable? Maybe it was an early step by those inside the Organization that desire change? Whatever the reasons, in 1992 the Society opened the floodgates to higher education and in doing so it exposed the Organization to the second catalytic influence leading to the Revolution.

    There is a reason why so many protests, so many revolutions in world history, began on college campuses or were lead by student leaders. If the Society were dedicated to preserving the status quo it would have never forgotten this lesson.

    The freedom to explore higher education has lead to a new generation of sophisticated and critical-thinking Witnesses. Many of these younger ones who are born into the religion are either living double-lives or rejecting their religious heritage outright. Even new attempts by the Society to temper the allure of higher education will not prevail or stem this tide. Older Witnesses, who listened to the Society's suggestions and directives regarding higher education are now returning to the classroom and realizing how much they erred in foregoing their higher education. This resentment, very justifiable in most cases, has opened the way to allow them to question other things which they formerly held as unquestionable.

    It is a certainty that the future of the Organization lies within the hands and work of today's youth. Among the future leaders of the Revolution there will be many who have obtained a higher education and learned and accepted the values of scholarship, plurality of thought, and the principles of diversity.

    Factor #3: The Leadership Void

    The year 1992, marked another major milestone in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses when Frederick Franz , the Third President of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, died. Even before that, with the rise of the Governing Body to power during the end of President Nathan H. Knorr's era in the 1970s, the presidency of the Society had become more and more only a token position. But with Franz's death, the real downfall of the power of the presidency was set in motion and findly came into full fruition with the massive legal reorganization of the old corporations and creation of several new corporate entities used by Jehovah's Witnesses today.

    More important than the downfall of the presidency however, has been the lack of any real leadership on the part of the Governing Body. That body while occassionally dominated by one or two, now and then, has failed to produce a true visionary -- someone both capable and willing to lead Jehovah's Witnesses into the future. Simply put, the Organization in its present form faces a crisis of leadership.

    And now the time has passed for a single new leader to emerge since the rise of such a charismatic leader would likely be rejected in our modern times. Thus for the time being, we are left with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to be responsible for the initiative of change.

    Unfortunately, the Governing Body , already quite distanced from the realities of contemporary life and the rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses, are contemplating their own eminent demise -- or denying it. And this body and its replacements or assistants are slowly losing grip on the hearts and soul of the average Witness.

    These facts are being felt by Witnesses everywhere. They are evident in the seemingling endless regurgitation of the same material and information, teachings and beliefs, in the pages of the Society's publications and The Watchtower. The meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses are tedious and boring for these very reasons. There is simply nothing new, because there is no one in authority doing any new thinking.

    Should we look to the Governing Body to lead the Organization out of this morass?

    The fact is that by its own terms, the FDS has crossed the point of irrationality and is now ebbing toward farce as there will be no one left of a sizable number claiming to be of the anointed at all still living, much less a "Governing Body" within fifteen or perhaps twenty years from now. This 8000 plus corp are now in average age in excess of 80 years old and cannot be expected as a significant number to remain longer than that. This Last Biological Clock is ticking and winding down quickly.

    Therefore, it is because of this leadership void, that the initiative for change must be seized by others. Change must be embraced by every Witness, no matter what station or position they may hold within the organization. It is on the initiative of those within the Worldwide Association of Jehovah's Witnesses, some perhaps, engaging in both passive resistance and active protest , and some who have joined the Prometheans and others simply doing their own small part, that will push the Revolution forward.

    Factor #4: The Doctrinal Void If you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses, stop and think about it for a moment. What DATE are you looking forward to?

    For the first time in the entire history of the modern-day Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, there is no date held out to the faithful for the expectation of Armageddon. Even after the 1975 Fiasco , when the Society began to wisely avoid specific date setting, there was still the insistence of the Generation Doctrine , and the occassional attempt at urgency for the "Armageddon is just around the corner" type statement.

    But since 1995, when the Society finally abandoned the Generation Doctrine, and with the exception of the Last Biological Clock teaching, there has been no date-setting and no theological or doctrinal understanding which leads Jehovah's Witnesses to believe in the near-term arrival of Armageddon.

    At most, all the Society can do and individuals who are folly enough can do, is to point to various problems and crises in the world and claim that these are signs of the times that prove we are living in the Last Days.

    This old script is growing more and more ineffective, especially upon younger Witnesses, who, like generations before them, see each crisis come and go or each new challenge met and surpassed.

    This combined with the insistence on old doctrines which among other things teach that the whole world's religious community is going to be turned upon by the political powers, or that the spreading of the Good News is being completed, has only led to more and more Witnesses wondering and questioning just where do they stand in the stream of time.

    The resulting psychic ambiguity is wreaking havoc upon the rank and file. Increasingly desensitized to nonspecific warnings about the coming destruction or statements that "soon the end must come," many Witnesses are cooling off in their enthusiasm for the ministry and peddling of the literature.

    This spiritual vacuum is being filled with many other things. For some it is being filled with materialism and worldly concerns. For others, it is being filled with false teachings and ungodly wisdom. And for still many others it is allowing them to expand their minds and to allow the truth about the Truth to be explored and to question, to challenge, and eventually, to want to change the status quo.

    Factor #5: External Pressures Pressures from outside of the Organization to change or reform have always been present. And they have always been among the weakest influence to change for a number of reasons, most notably, because such outside pressures, viewed as "persecution from Satan" only served to reinforce the Witness mindset and theology.

    However, because of the previous four factors, and because of changes within our larger cultural society which have eroded the barriers of insular religious institutions and made possible the successful invasion into ecclesiastical authority, it seems evident that the factor of external pressure may be more powerfully felt by the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses than ever before.

    These external pressures will likely come in the realms of: the Internet, the media, the academic arena, the social perspective, religious opponents and the courtroom.

    The Internet/WWW will continue to play a crucial role in exposing fault and falsehood of the Organization and in helping to mobilize the external forces.

    The media has already contributed to the external pressure in several ways and this area is likely to grow as both Jehovah's Witnesses become more and more interesting to the mainstream and as opponents learn to better utilize such resources.

    The academic world, always eager to investigate undeveloped fields, are finding that Jehovah's Witnesses are remarkably understudied and underevaluated and more and more studies will appear in academia -- the results of which will be influential.

    Society at large, especially in areas and lands where Jehovah's Witnesses are relatively "new," are pressuring their governments and authorities to examine closely these new invaders.

    Religions and religious leaders, have always been opponents of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, many are becoming much more effective in their counter-ministries. Some are adopting similar techniques as Jehovah's Witnesses to wrestle away potential converts and others are making use of both the Internet and published information.

    In the legal realm, the Organization faces numerous battles. Of course, this is nothing new. In the area of civil rights, it is unlikely to lose any significant ground in Western lands; however, the courts of these lands and elsewhere are more and more inclined to remove the veil of ecclesiastical privilege in several areas including child welfare, sexual abuse, privacy and labor regulations. Additionally, although they present "legal long-shots," the spectre of being responsible in tort law for its actions and for its statements (including possibly such religious doctrines as the Blood Doctrine) looms threatening over the Society's future.
    ------------

    Witness the Revolution

    Eduardo

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    I agree, I don't think they're going anywhere. I don't think people should wait for the day - there's a time for healing ourselves but eventually that time has to end and we have to start living.

  • dozy
    dozy

    A couple of further factors:

    (1) There is a market that exists for an essentially bible based , politically neutral , regulated morally upright religion with specific doctrines (one God , ransom , awaiting Christ's return etc). JWs as dominated by the GB and a handful of "non-anointed" committee members currently occupies that niche and it ain't going to go away. With an existing 6 million members and a steady growth in third world countries , it represents a popular franchise.

    (2) There is a tremendous and continual struggle for power between the conservative controlling heirachy and a softer , kinder "helpers rather than masters over your faith" group. Contrast the Watchtower articles which week by week emphasise the Org with the TMS - the current Oral Review questions rarely mention anything to do with the FDS or anything organisational. While the conservatives have long held control and seen off any attempt to usurp their power (notably in the late ' 70s) , they can't stay in power forever and their hand is weakened every second that the clock ticks away from 1914.

    The only factor that I would disagree with Eduardo is his suggestion that the 8,000 of "anointed ones" will rapidly decrease. This figure has flatlined at 7000 - 9000 over the last 20 years and I just don't see any decrease happening. A memorial rarely passes without me hearing that another JW has "become anointed" in a neighbouring circuit. The average age isn't about 80 - there are plenty in the 40 - 60 bracket and quite a few "young turks" as well. Assuming an average age of about 60 , to maintain the figure at the present level only requires about 400 "new" anointed ones each year , or 1 in every 250 congregations. Despite all the warnings at every Memorial about not taking the emblems , for various reasons there will always be a few individuals for emotional reasons , or because of predisposition towards a heavenly hope , who add themselves to the list. The miracle is that the figure isn't increasing , due to a rigorous policy of not counting "dubious" candidates.

    The GB , to try and ensure its long term survival as an entity , has deliberately embarked on a policy of cherry picking any newly "anointed" on-message CO or DO , bringing them into Bethel and putting them on the various committees. There is no shortage of candidates and it would seem that there is a pool of about twenty possibilities for the 3 or 4 new posts that are required within a couple of years , due to deaths both past and imminent.

  • sf
    sf
    I believe they've changed for the worse.

    There's nothing they could change into that I'd be interested in. Too many bad memories.

    To the willing adult Witnesses, I just wish them lots of problems and a bad life.

    Bingo, as usual Gary. How do you re-form dead kids?! ANY ELDER WANT TO TAKE A SHOT AT AN ANSWER HERE? Tread carefully, I'm feisty today. Confronting that elder the other day gave me wings.

    Kudos goes to SirNose, as he is at least WILLING to take a risk and share truth tonight.

    To all other willing adult jws, I wish the above two-fold.

    Gary, one day I'd really like to have a live chat with you. Maybe the gabbly chatroom sometime.

    sKally

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    Eduardo,

    I found your post quite interesting but I'd like to offer a few counter-points:

    However, the facts are that the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine will inevitably be discarded or in the least extremely revised, either of which produce the outcome of it evaporating as a source of authority upon the congregations and the faithful. The principal reason why the FDS doctrine is doomed is due to several factors itself which are:

    The FDS doctrine is the entire cornerstone on which the religion is founded. Take that away, you take away everything. I do agree with you partially because I think the WTS will change it but not abandon it. Here is my theory (for what it's worth):

    a) the belief/teaching/understanding that some of the anointed (FDS class) will be alive at the onset of the Great Tribulation through to Armageddon and that only (as the scripture says) for their own sake will the days of trouble "be cut short;"

    That's easy enough to change (and I believe it will change). My guess is that with some tweaking on the current "understanding" of Revelation, they can work it so that the work of the annointed two witnesses has been completed (yet still keeping the random public preaching work). They've already waivered on whether the annointed will be here when the GT starts. And, the "chosen ones" can easily be the Great Crowd.

    b) the belief/teaching/understanding that the FDS class (anointed) were sealed as of 1935;

    They have already started changing that one.The current teaching doesn't have them sealed, just that the general calling has ended sometime in the mid-30's. The sealing is yet to take place and my understanding is that is to happen during the GT. So, they've got wiggle room on this portion.

    c) time, old age and death

    Agree on this point. The annointed replacement doctrine has allowed the last 5 GB members to be the "replacement" annointed (born after 1935). As long as they keep the sealing in the future, this doctrine "works".

    Choice A: Would probably include both an abandoment of the 1935 marker and the admission/revision that Revelation's 144,000 is NOT a literal number but represents symbolically "fullfillment" or "perfection of order." However, the likely consequence of that action would be for many more of Jehovah's Witnesses to express a Heavenly Hope placing them in the anointed class. This much larger group of anointed are going to demand more authority and recognize the falsity of the GB/FDS doctrine.

    I actually think this choice is exactly what will happen. The 1935 marker is almost worthless (see the newest members of the GB). I could see dropping the literal number of 144k but if its done correctly over a series of WT studies followed up by CO talks & CA/DC parts, it could be managed to keep the folks expressing a heavenly calling to a minimum. They really don't have any power so its probably a non-issue.

    The future of the WTBTS is to remove the religious facade and publicly reveal its true nature that developed in the 20th Century which is that it is a Publishing Corporation.

    That's already started a few years ago with removing the GB from the WTBTS board and the reorg. My personal theory is that they will start charging for literature and paying taxes due to the reduction in contributions.

    actually don't quite understand the first portion AuldSoul. It seems like you are saying that the GB doubt the sincerity or don't believe that current memorial partakers are part of the heavenly class. I have never seen any info or evidence of that. While a few may be questioned or challenged, most are accepted as anointed - at least to their own claim.

    I agree with AuldSoul on this point. I've lived in several states over the years and the general attitude of the congreation, elders and COs is that the younger annointed are nuts. They are viewed with suspicion. Statements in the WT seem to echo this point by using the pharse "genuine annointed". In private conversations with COs, they have stated to me that Brooklyn believes the number of real annointed is much lower than 8k.

    The fact that the anointed as a body do not have any real power or involvement with "feeding the household" spiritual food is one which is dawning more and more upon Jehovah's Witnesses.

    That's mostly lip service. The majority of JWs that I know believe that the GB is the really the only portion of the annointed that is being used as God's channel.

    After the Revolution, those having a Heavenly Hope will be much more numerous and many Jehovah's Witnesses will have the hope to live in the Earthly Paradise. But all will become partakers in the Eucharist.

    Why do you say that? I'm assuming because being annointed will be a non-issue? That would be a huge doctrinal change. Not saying that it couldn't happen but that would be a shock to most. Again it could be managed just like all the other changes in history.

    (4) The organization shows a willingness to publicly claim beliefs to which Jehovah's Witnesses do not actually subscribe in order to improve public image (see Lisa's interview with J.R. Brown), while retaining the same hard-line beliefs in reality.

    One of the factors impelling the Revolution is the greater access to information and greater transparency and consistency. As more JWs and outsiders learn about these discrepancies they will see the need to change. The point you raise above will produce consequences that motivate reform, it is not a barrier to it.

    I agree with your comments and think to some extent, the consequences of folks leaving will push some limited reform. Just think it won't involving the entire foundation on which the organization lives.

    The pressures for reform are not all going to be from the top of the present hierarchy. There will be other internal pressures and external pressures.

    Totally agree with this point. Why change the status quo if you're in charge?

    I also agree with you that the exodus currently taking place in the West and even the once model county of Japan have the potential to force some reform. I also agree that JWs will not ever be mainstream and are conditioned to accept change due to the new light doctrine (which honestly is a stroke of genius).

    On to your factors of change:

    1 - Internet - In my opinion, the most influencial force in showing rank & file some of the errors the WTS has made. I once thought there was no way anyone would be able to convience me JWs didn't have the truth. I've gone around & around with "apostates". Yet, one session on the internet completely changed my mind. That's because it was the Society's own words that did them in. So, I'm in agreement with your thought and if reform DOES happen, the internet will be a driving force.

    Factor #2: Higher Education - The Birthplace of the Questioning Mind

    The doors were opened for a little over 10 years. I missed it but am making up for it now. Your points are valid and this is the reason the WTS has demonized college again. The interesting thing is that even "strong" members of the congregation are completely ignoring the instructions to not send their kids to college. Once the barn door was opened, there is no going back. What I disagree with you on is the folks that who learned critical thinking skills are going to stay in the organization and fight for reform. The penalty for speaking ones mind is harsh and swift. Unless that changes, there will be no revolution. I thought I could make a difference at one point. I can't, not in a large way. I can make a difference in my family, that's about it. I'm not going to waste my time and energy in reform efforts. Your theory rests on the assumption that once people find out the "truth about the truth" that they will stay & fight for change instead of dropping out. I've been around long enough to know that the fight is hopeless.

    Factor #3: The Leadership Void

    I agree there is a leadership void and the org is almost looking for someone to take over. I think its more likely that a charismatic leader could emerge (like Franz) but I'm afraid that instead of making reasonable reforms (blood, shunning, ect) the changes would be even more radical and cultlike. But, I'm a pessimist!

    Factor #4: The Doctrinal Void

    Again, we all can see that your statement is true. Probably due to #3. That's way I think any reform would be for the worst and push the organization towards a more radical stance instead of a more mainstream stance. I think we both agree that they need to do something to stem the tide of discontent, if they even reconize it.

    Factor #5: External Pressures

    I do believe the blood doctrine will be changed due to the external pressures you mention. And, the way child abuse cases have been dealt with has already changed somewhat and I would expect that to change as well. But, for the most part, JWs don't care about the external pressures and I'm quite certain leadership is only concerned about any legal issues. They'll adapt where legally necesarry and keep hammering the God's channel card.

    In closing, please understand that I would love to see meaningful reform. All my family (on both sides) are JWs. All my close friends. I'm a life long JW who has spent much time and energy in service to the organization thinking I was doing God's will. I feel like a fool for being taken in. And I believe that is the major obstacle to reform. Once you learn the "truth about the truth", you tend to be angry, hurt, betrayed. If this is God's organization, only He can fix it. If it's not, why bother?

  • yesidid
    yesidid
    If this is God's organization, only He can fix it. If it's not, why bother?

    Very well put my dear Doubting Brother. For me, that is the beginning and the end of the argument.

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