evolution or creation? lets talk...

by Sam87 537 Replies latest jw friends

  • Beardo
    Beardo

    @ Satanus

    Indeed, my spiritual experiences cannot easily be expressed through language and may be dismissed by the usual culprits as some kind of physical electro/chemical stimulation no doubt.

    I suppose in many ways I am a mystic - but hopefully rational enough not to fly off at abstract tangents too often.

    Regarding the apparent conjecture of my experience of a sentient force behind all " things " - I'd say so myself, but I'm not about to prove it via objective evidence. As with most spiritual experiences, there is a sense of " knowing " ...

    I do not always feel this way, but mostly, especially when connecting with the natural world.

  • Beardo
    Beardo
    Very simple mathematical equations have shown very complex results.

    There is nothing " simple " about a fractal. The base maths at a human level may appear rather simplistic, but the results are incredibly beautiful, organized and complex. You aren't seeing the magic underpinning the human code which unlocks the puzzle.

    You never will - you were never meant to reach that level within the physical body.

    GOD at many levels is pure math

  • dido
    dido

    stevenyc- not sure, i hate the word god, in fact i prefer to just say creator, god had religous connotations.

  • freetosee
    freetosee
    Pre-flood brains were 3 times larger...

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    God is No-thing. No-thing is impossible.

  • riverofdeceit
    riverofdeceit

    The way I see it is that I have two options:

    1. base my opinion on where all of the facts point. Some questions have not yet been answered, but the questions that do have answers, have facts to back them up.
    2. a. base my opinion on...um, a story, ignoring facts altogether. b. recognise the facts, but claim reasonable doubt because...well, because we really like the old story.

    I'll bet you can guess where I stand.

  • whyizit
    whyizit

    Believe what you like.

    There are many quotes from Darwin's own writings that prove he could not substantiate his evolution theory. He found the holes himself and didn't deny it. If he chose to defend it any way, then that does not prove that he believed it beyond all doubt.

    Look how many kids struggle with their belief of Santa Claus. Even when they are faced with the sad truth that he does not come down the chimney and bring them gifts. There appeared to be proof! It all lined up, that is why they believed it. The evidence was there. The gifts, the empty cookie plate, etc.... For years they believed this, yet it would seem foolish of them to have spent so much time believing something that just simply could not be. So they deny it. But, alas, the truth comes out in the end. No fat guy with presents. They were mistaken. They were misled.

    IF Darwin appeared to be grasping at straws to support his theory upon his death bed, could it be that he spent so much of his life on it, that perhaps he didn't want his children to think he wasted his time? Maybe his children didn't want him to appear to be a fool, when so many others were buying into the act. How many people have covered up for loved ones, to give honor and dignity to their memory? It wouldn't be the first time. Many quotes from Darwin's own writings support that he did not have enough evidence to satisfy even himself about his theory. He admitted it. If he chose to hold on to the idea anyway, then maybe that was his "Santa Claus".

    Haven't you ever believed something that was not true, and even when you knew it wasn't true, you still held on, because you spent so much time and effort on it? You hoped that someone would come along with the evidence you needed to ease your mind. But all that happened was more evidence came to conclude that you were wrong. I have.

    You can believe anything, but it doesn't make it a fact.

    When you weigh the evidence, I believe creation has the upper hand. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. Neither one of us knows a person who is living on earth today who was actually there and could prove what happened. Both are theories. There are still the obvious questions: If humans "evolved" from apes, why are there still apes? If we evolved from a pit of slime, how did the pit of slime know how to make us (purely by accident, mind you) male and female? Those are pretty intricate "parts", you know! The questions are endless. Anything as intricate and fascinating as the reproduction systems of various creatures could not have been some kind of cosmic accident. They testify that there was a designer.

  • Little Bo Peep
    Little Bo Peep

    I personally don't believe I could look at the universe, both the vastness beyond our earth, as well as the universe under the microscope, with all it's detail preciseness, and think it all happened. I definitely believe in creation, and a creator. After all, I think even evolutionists would have to agree, it all got a start somewhere...even the "big bang" theory had to have a beginner. I do know there are many things that have mutated (evolved?) from one thing to another. Also, if Jehovah didn't create animals to eat meat (as the WT says), then they must have evolved to have the need to eat only meat etc. (Where would we be if coyotes didn't eat mice, etc...the world would be overflowing with mice). I mentioned on an earlier post, that Russell believed in theistic evolution, that God let the waters "swarm" with living creatures, not necessarily creating each life form individually, but started the process and let it go from there. I believe he thought that the only life form Jehovah directly created was man. You can find information on that in "The Truth Shall Make You Free" 1943, p65. Also, Ken Raines wrote, "The Watchtower's Endoresment of Theistic Evolution", which gave quite a few references to older publications indicating Russell did believe this way.

    Little Bo Peep

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    dido:

    I believe in creation purely and simply for the fact that human beings are too complex to `just happen`.

    Ironically, that's one of the reasons I believe in evolution. We are too complex to just have happened, either by chance or at the hands of an even more complex creator. The complexity, instead, is the result of descent with modification in a competitive environment, a fact well-attested by morphological, genetic and palaeontological evidence.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    whyizit:

    There are still the obvious questions: If humans "evolved" from apes, why are there still apes? If we evolved from a pit of slime, how did the pit of slime know how to make us (purely by accident, mind you) male and female?

    Those questions are obvious. A flat-earther might ask a similarly obvious question: If the world is a sphere, why don't people in Australia fall off?

    Unfortunately, "common sense" is no substitute for education.

    http://www.talkorigins.org

    [Edited to add links with answers to the specific obvious questions. I'm not going to do all the work for you, but this should get you started.]

    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC150.html
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB350.html

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