what would be "proof" of God's existance to someone?

by BlackSwan of Memphis 90 Replies latest jw friends

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    The Bible God is supposed to be all-powerful, all-knowing etc. It is impossible for a human to be able to conclude that a particular entity is actually all-powerful or all- knowing. You never know if the entity is telling the truth or not. How do you know that a particular demonstration of "power" is infinite? A being may know a lot but how do you determine with a finite mind that a particular being knows "everything".

    You never know when a stronger and smarter being will come along.

    The whole idea of such a god is incoherent.

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis
    But alas...there were witnesses to Jesus life and works both in the bible and recorded in secular history.

    who? where? when? How do you Know these writers saw what they said they saw?

    Other then that...you believe....I don't. let's leave it at that peace

    I already have my proof and it is in my heart, I guess that is why they call it faith. On the other hand I have been told by many who are unsure of God's existence would be if they seen a ghost or something of the supernatural.

    Yeah, I guess that is why call it faith. Thank you for your thoughts Oldflame.

    There are some who would deny God's existence even if they died and went to heaven.

    ok freetobe:

    Seen enough evidence of this, no more proof needed.

    What kind of proof do you need to believe in mental telepathy?

    Seen, done and do proof of this often, convinced.

    I had a feeling someone out there would say something to this effect. Interesting. Thx for sharing. Frankie:

    What would be proof of God's existance to someone?

    I don't know I guess it would all depend apon what this God is claiming to be,

    Is he just claiming to be a minor diety or a big guns god claiming to be the creator of everything.

    And is he just claiming it for this universe only,,, so it all depend on how spectaculor the claim the bigger the mouth on them the more I excpect to be provided proof

    And if they get insulted it's their tuff tities

    and don't let them frighten you.

    Those are some good points. Thx! Proplog:

    The Bible God is supposed to be all-powerful, all-knowing etc. It is impossible for a human to be able to conclude that a particular entity is actually all-powerful or all- knowing. You never know if the entity is telling the truth or not. How do you know that a particular demonstration of "power" is infinite? A being may know a lot but how do you determine with a finite mind that a particular being knows "everything".

    You never know when a stronger and smarter being will come along.

    The whole idea of such a god is incoherent.

    This is an interesting take. How do we understand God? That's partly it I guess. What could God do to make us believe?

  • daystar
    daystar

    Warlock

    I think you made some good points. Brigid and I talked about this last night.

    Outside of some sort of proof of my physical existence, that I can speak directly (debateable) to others, that I can move, interact directly (debateable as well) with my environment, and think, I really can't present proof that I exist. Yet I feel that I exist...

  • heathen
    heathen

    I can say I get tired of people with their talk of mind altering drugs and sleep deprivation whenever somebody mentions an encounter with the paranormal . Many people see ghosts or spirits , there's quite a bit of evidence ,even if you watch ghost hunters where they actually film strange occurances , not saying they are above faking it but think it a good chance it's real because their claim is to first find a logical exsplanation then look at the evidence from an angle of spirit activity . I even mentioned my experiences to the j-dubby's and got the old bums rush like I was out of my mind or something . Fine then don't believe but you don't have to insult people that do .....

  • skeptic2
    skeptic2

    heathen said:

    Many people see ghosts or spirits , there's quite a bit of evidence ,even if you watch ghost hunters where they actually film strange occurances , not saying they are above faking it but think it a good chance it's real because their claim is to first find a logical exsplanation then look at the evidence from an angle of spirit activity . I even mentioned my experiences to the j-dubby's and got the old bums rush like I was out of my mind or something . Fine then don't believe but you don't have to insult people that do .....

    The simplest explanation is that it is all bunk and nonsense, from peopling fooling themselves to outright hoaxes. To move to a less simple explanation like 'spirit activity' you need to provide evidence that cannot be explained by the simpler hypothesis. No-one has ever provided such evidence that I have seen. The evidence has to be incontrovertibly not explainable by non-paranormal factors.

    [What kind of proof do you need to believe in mental telepathy? ]

    free2beme said:

    Seen, done and do proof of this often, convinced.

    Please pass Go, please collect your million dollars from Mr. Randi.

    I get tired of this non-sense. This is not a personal attack. I am taking what you said and telling you the most likely explanation for it. The most likely explanations are that you are either a) an out-and-out liar or b) have mental health issues or c) do not understand what the word telepathy means.

    Of course you can prove me wrong by providing proof of your telepathic powers (or looking it up in a dictionary and letting us know if you misunderstood it). Let me predict that you won't.

  • daystar
    daystar

    heathen, I can't be certain you were indirectly referring to me, but since I was the only one I can see that mentioned sleep-deprivation and mind-altering drugs (other than the person to whom I was responding), I can only assume you were.

    If so, I think you missed my point entirely. And for that I apologize. The person I was referring to, parakeet, answered this question:

    What kind of proof do you need to believe in mental telepathy?***

    with this:

    I'd have to be able to read someone's mind without being under the influence of schizophrenia or mind-altering drugs.

    to which I responded with:

    What if you didn't know you were schizophrenic? Or perhaps you had a chemical imbalance that mimicked a mind-altering drug? Or suffered from sleep-deprivation.

    I say this from personal experience with very strong psychadelics. I am able to, with limited success, duplicate some of the perceptual modifications, illusions if you will, without taking any mind-altering drug, as if I were actually on a (very mild) mind-altering drug. You can do this yourself... go on a fast, or go a few days with no sleep, if you want something extreme. You may even provide for yourself more proof, if that's what you're looking for. If I were to do the same thing, I might find more proof for my viewpoint. It depends a lot upon where the focus is.

    I was addressing parakeet's specific answer and not encounters with the paranormal in general. I've observed, felt and thought some pretty strange things when I was fairly certain I was not under the influence of any drug or in any way obviously in an altered state. But then again, our perceptions can deceive us at any time. As well, our perceptions may be altered, if even ever so slightly, much more easily than one might imagine.

    Also, I don't see how I was in any way insulting.

    If you weren't referring to me, ignore this if you like.

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    In regards to hallucinogenics (spelling?) and people experiencing paranormal stuff....

    Dunno if this helps (and don't flame me!)

    I do know that when it comes to 'experimenting' with the paranormal, it is Highly Recommended that one Not use drugs or alcohol when doing so. In fact, many that I've met would not even consider what a person had to say while under the influence.

    Does that help at all?

    If not just toss it into delete-land and forget I mentioned it.

  • daystar
    daystar
    I do know that when it comes to 'experimenting' with the paranormal, it is Highly Recommended that one Not use drugs or alcohol when doing so. In fact, many that I've met would not even consider what a person had to say while under the influence.

    I hear a lot of that too, mainly from fluffy-bunny pagan types. I toss it out the window. I can't really go into why now, though, unfortunately, since I'm about to leave for the day. But while ingesting drugs, etc. for that sort of thing does alter things, they must be altered in any case, to one level or another, in order to purposefully induce a state at which one is receptive to such experiences, whether it's dropping the brain waves into beta, etc. through meditation, repetition, repeating "AUMMMMM" or whatever, it amounts to the same thing but on different levels of intensity (vibration some may say).

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis
    I do know that when it comes to 'experimenting' with the paranormal, it is Highly Recommended that one Not use drugs or alcohol when doing so. In fact, many that I've met would not even consider what a person had to say while under the influence.

    I hear a lot of that too, mainly from fluffy-bunny pagan types. I toss it out the window. I can't really go into why now, though, unfortunately, since I'm about to leave for the day. But while ingesting drugs, etc. for that sort of thing does alter things, they must be altered in any case, to one level or another, in order to purposefully induce a state at which one is receptive to such experiences, whether it's dropping the brain waves into beta, etc. through meditation, repetition, repeating "AUMMMMM" or whatever, it amounts to the same thing but on different levels of intensity (vibration some may say).

    Oh man you gotta go? RIght now? You're going to leave us hangin? Just kiddin.

    Truthfully, for Me... the jury is still out on paranormal experiences (so to speak) while under said altered state.

    For me to accept it as a totally valid thing, it would have to be so incredibly awesome, like for instance me being able to describe something in perfect detail without there ever being a possibility that I've seen it.

    Fluffy bunny? Ohhh so you know the difference between a fluffy bunny pagan site and a good hardcore one?

  • heathen
    heathen

    I guess I'm having flash backs to previous threads on this topic maybe.LOL Some posters do get insulting over it and why they even join the discussion is beyond me . I know what I experienced and I don't need somebody else telling me I was nuked on drugs or having some sort of break down . I don't believe in tele kenesis or comunicating with the dead or psychic BS , don't even believe in the UFO phenomena , just believe what I see with my own eyes . True the eyes can play tricks on ya but I seriously doubt in the circumstance that I encountered , that being the case. In fact I've never heard a drug user say they have those type experiences and I've known alot of them.

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