A bit reluctant

by saki2fifty 148 Replies latest jw friends

  • Twitch
    Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve

    NIN reference duly noted and aptly suitable


    BTW define demonized pls

  • saki2fifty
    What? I already posted on that other thread you started (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/118065/1.ashx), now you have to stick around and tell us how dirty you feel after the weekend ;)

    Ha! You got it man... ok, ok... this thing is a bit addicting, so ok, i'll stay. Man, wishy washy.

  • katiekitten
    The bible does it for me. But here it goes...

    Matthew 24:45

    "Who really is the faithful and descreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"

    But thats not an answer, thats just the bible repeating the question.

    If you are saying the WBTS are the slave because they print all the literature (hence give food at the proper time) what about all the other religions that also print literature that is considered to be 'food at the proper time' by their religions devotees?

    That argument is not strong enough on its own.

    Jesus said the only prophet who is true is one whose prophecies have all come true. So consider - have the WBTS prophecies all come true? 1914? 1925? 1975? and now big hints at 2034? (OK they dont actually mention 2034, but they set the sum up for you 1914 + 120 = and they leave you to furnish the date. Ive seen the Watchtower where they spend 3 paragraphs discussing Noahs alloted time of 120 years and how we are already 92 years into that alloted time. Thats so that they can say they never gave a date, when it doesnt happen - 'oh it was presumptuous brothers who jumped ahead of Jehovah and gave the date 1914, 1925, 1975, 2034')

    Saki - dont leave. I like you.

  • hummingbird92575

    Dear Hummingbird, I am glad you were not scared off. I had hoped though that you would read my posts to you. I am unsure if you did since you have not replied to me. You just used the reasoning of having questions with the wrong tone. I hate to tell you but my husband and I have been waiting for 7 months for the elders to return with any kind of information to help explain our questions with 607. In our meeting I was pleading with them to help us. NOTHING!! If you doubt wether my tone was proper, well, we recorded the meeting in case we were ever accused of having a bad attitude. It is not the tone but it is the fact that you are questioning those taking the lead. You cannot question the explanations in the publications. I feared this from the very begining. I knew I would be labeled if anyone knew I was questioning things. It ended up getting out. Anyhow, you should know that all the care and concern you are recieving when you miss meetings is wonderful. But I worry that once you are baptised, in time, it will change. We have not been to a meeting in a year and a half, with the exceptions of the assemblys. The last one we attended was last fall. I can count on one hand the people who called out of concern. Two of which were my closest friends. We were not slackers, we were VERY active, husband was a MS, and I pioneered every year. Always studied, always answered, had lots of RVS, and even studies, etc.. But I could have died, and no one would have been the wiser. I hope you will never experience the feeling of abandonment, and the abuse of name calling, such a "apostate". I hope you reply to my last couple of posts. I am interested as to how you feel about them. Sincerely, Lady Liberty Hello Lady...I am glad that I can actually call you that. You are one of the very few that have tried to be respectful. Man, I am so sorry that you have had so much trouble with the brothers in your area. Is there another congregation you can talk to? Where I live, there are about 10, so I am pretty fortunate that if, for some strange reason, I would not get an answer that satisfied my query, I could go somewhere else. I am so glad that you have hung onto your beliefs. It is true to some extent, at least in my own heart, that your religion is deep down in your heart and that only Jehovah can know your real intentions. Please do not give up. I know that sometimes in this world it seems like some things will never work out, but with faith, prayer and perserverance, all things are possible. I am really glad to hear about your daughter having been exposed to the truth. My kids are 4, 7 and 10. How old is she? If you don't want to tell me, I will understand. I haven't exactly looked too much like the "good guy" in this thread LOL I just thought that Saki should have a little moral support since so many were trying to pull him away from the faith that he obviously had. I honestly didn't know that this site wasn't for practicing JW's. I really wish I had never signed up. I truly thought that I would be able to find some friends who I could talk to casually about scriptures and so forth. When I was talking about peoples' tones, I was only referring to that guy who I was responding to. I am so sorry if you thought I meant you as well. I hope I didn't upset you in that way. I am usually a very mild person and have tried to be respectful in my responses. Anyways, I feel so bad about your situation, and I wish I was closer to you so we could go to the brothers together. Witnesses are supposed to stick together and it hurts to know that someone may have been discouraged out of the truth...but apparently, as evidenced in this site, this happens more often than most JW's think. The elders at your congregation should have been there to set your conscience straight so you could at least feel comfortable with their answer about 607. I am confident about the years and estimates and all, but I know that some people need more information, and that is absolutely your right. Have you tried writing to the Society? I mean, maybe someone could call you or write back. I have never had this type of hinderance, so I am not sure what to do in this situation. If you would like, I could talk to an older sister at my congregation to gather some evidence about it...If not, That's fine as well. We have to do what is best for ourselves, and no one should be between that relationship of your with Jehovah, except for Jesus. That is why I have been so frustrated on this thread because I have had people calling me stupid because I don't want to give up my membership in the congregation...*shakes head* I am really thankful that you gave me the respect you have. I truly appreciate it. Remember that you are loved. Jehovah knows your heart condition and loves us all as his children and when we hurt, he hurts. As one VERY wise brother once told me, "We are all on the same road, but are on different parts of our journeys." I hope that, no matter what, you continue on yours. I would love to hear back from you when you have time. Please message me if you would like. I will keep you in my prayers. And, no...I DO NOT think you are apostate. There is a HUGE difference between what you have been through and in someone being a willful slanderer against Jehovah. There is a difference between seeking answers respectfully and the way I have been treated on this board.Thank you so much for wonderful thoughts. Sincerely, C.

  • hummingbird92575
  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi Saki, welcome to the forum.

    I, too, am an unbaptised child of JWs and my story has quite a bit in common with yours.

    One of your posts covers something I was thinking about today.

    I have held back baptism for the simple reason that the organization has a strict and tough requirements to follow, and being the person that I am, not very outgoing, it is extremely hard for me. I couldn't have done like everyone else and got baptized early on, which would have been easy, but I guess one of the other reasons is that I wanted to make sure I was ready. And because my attendance was off and on, never felt like I was.

    That is so much like my own experience.

    I am not very outgoing either. I describe myself as a hermit surrounded by people. I put this down to the isolation imposed on me in my youth. There were few kids my age in The Truth for much of my formative years as my parents were serving where the Need is Great and my schoolmates were all going to be killed Soon because their parents weren't JWs. This was compounded by the Fact that I would be killed too if they led me astray.

    I am getting over it. I have a good friend of many years who is very outgoing and makes friends easily. I am learning from his example. I have learned not to sit in the corner and say nothing. It takes me some effort, but it is worth it. Do stuff with people. If you hear someone say they have a project on this weekend, stick your hand up and offer to help. Invite yourself fishing etc. with them. It doesn't have to be something you always wanted to do, or even something you are good at.

    I couldn't bring myself to baptism either. I always 'knew' it was The Truth even though there were things about it that didn't seem quite right.

    I knew it was the truth because my father always said so. My mother was a stickler for good grammar, but my father would ride roughshod over grammar to 'prove' stuff to me from the Bible. If I ever questioned anything that didn't seem right, the final answer would often boil down to "Because it's the Truth" or "These people are Bible scholars" or "These people are spirit directed". I even heard him those arguements after having a ding dong battle with someone who really knew his Bible well. What I didn't realise for 50 years, was that these statements were not arguements at all. They were just mantras. Statements of his faith in his relgious leaders.

    He spent 50 years wanting to get me to join his religion and then he blew it....big time.

    He hit me up with his "The generation of 1914 is getting pretty old now, you had better hurry up and get in!" That did it. I had heard that sooooo many times. When he left I Googled .........Jehovah's Witnesses false prophets. One of the first things I found was that that doctrine had been dumped in 1995. Within days I was out. The chains were gone. A great weight was lifted from my shoulders and I was free.

    I found this forum a couple of weeks later.

    I wish you all the best for your journey saki.



  • AuldSoul


    I was respectful. I asked a favor. Then saki2fifty made it pretty clear he didn't know the answer either, so I imagine you would be doing both of us a favor.


    Can you provide the Scriptures demonstrating what Jehovah's Witnesses call requirements for Christian baptism? I can show many that directly demonstrate otherwise for all but repentance and conversion.

    If the Scriptures only show 1 requirement prior to Christian baptism, why would an organization that claims to be Christian have 7 requirements? Why would they use a book entitled What Does the Bible Really Teach? to teach something that isn't found in the Bible?

    This is really important to me. Please Scripturally defend the doctrine on pre-baptismal requirements, if you can. Hebrews 6:1-3 includes the teachings on baptisms as among the foundational doctrine, the elementary things. If the foundation is not Scriptural, how can I trust the same men that gave me that doctrine more than I trust the Bible?

    Proverbs 3:5-6
    5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. 6 In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight.
    Psalm 146:3
    3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.

    The Governing Body is not Jehovah. The Governing Body is earthling men. They say so themselves. If they are trusting in their own understanding regarding the requirements for baptism, I am directly instructed not to trust them. So, I need to be shown that they are putting their trust in Jehovah instead of leaning on their own understanding.


  • mrsjones5

    I'm beginning to like Saki. I won't say anything about Hummingbird.

    It would be great if you stayed Saki. I can tell your mind is opening, at least you're trying. We all know it's hard.


  • jgnat
    Mt 24:42 sets up the series of scriptures that are metaphors, the "domestics" being the great crowd, the faithful and descreet slave being the WTS and some of the annointed, and the master being Jehovah...

    Hummingbird, why do you believe it is a series of metaphors? I interpret that scripture, as a parable rather than a prophecy, to mean that every Christian leader is to be faithful and discreet and to provide food at the proper time. If we instead are cruel and beat those we serve, we risk Jehovah's disfavor. Prove my interpretation wrong.

    Wait, don't you know this already?

    Actually, I don't. I was never a Witness. I am familiar with the JW beliefs, but I was never sold on the interpretation. Also, it is very rare that I have a chat with a loyal JW on the internet, and they usually run away after a few questions. Frankly, so do the live JW's that I meet. So, no, I don't know. I'd like you to explain the logic of your belief in the Faithful and Discreet Slave to me. This is very important, since every JW is required to shelve their disbelief and follow these "imperfect men" without question. Be a Berean.

    Hey, saki! According to my clock, you are posting after midnight! Does that mean you've graduated to weekend and evening browsing? I do hope you stay for a while. Your doubts and your questions provide a valuable roadmap to the process a doubting JW goes through. I understand you could go either way. The weight of evidence against your cherished belief system will eventually become too much to bear. You will have to choose at some point to leave or go, your choice. But I hope you will spend a few more nights staring at the stars, questioning, asking. The process of questioning and evaluating, though painful, is beautiful too. Kind of like watching a sedentary man take up jogging. It's painful to watch at first, but you gotta admire the man's courage against ridicule, embarrassment, and failure.

  • TD

    Jgnat said:

    So, no, I don't know. I'd like you to explain the logic of your belief in the Faithful and Discreet Slave to me. This is very important, since every JW is required to shelve their disbelief and follow these "imperfect men" without question. Be a Berean.

    Yes Hummingbird (Respectfully, etc.)

    Explain the conditional language of the Lukan account. The final outcome of the "slave" was never stated.

    "He" would either be rewarded or punished depending upon his conduct in the Master's absence.

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