by Swamboozled 601 Replies latest watchtower bible
Which would best describe a believer in God's word the Bible.
A. Secular historians conclude that there was no 40 year desolation of Egypt at the hands of Neb therefore what Jehovah prophecied thru Ezekiel cannot be true.
B. Jehovah prophecied thru Ezekiel that Egypt would be desolated at the hands of Neb for 40 years therefore secular historians' conclusion that no 40 year desolation of Egypt took place cannot be true.
How about addressing which parts of the bible are literal and which parts I am to read as figurative. I would really like to know. As far as your website, pure speculation.
Since you want to just throw websites out as proof...
http://www.afcministry.com/The_Destruction_of_Jerusalem.htm
http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/watchtower_quotes/watchtower-dates/607bce/
http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/586_607
Literal and figurative would be for another thread I would think. I really do not care to get sidetracked into such a discussion as it would be time consuming and probably pointless. Please look for one of JWs in your area and they will be happy to study the Bible with you so that you can get a basic understanding of it and see how to determine thru use of the Bible what is literal and what is symbolic.
Thirdwitness,
Your arguement is basic. You seem to be saying something like this...
I know I am right, because the part of the Bible that is to be read literally says so. Ignore the figurative parts which read similar to the literal parts that also have prophecy in them as they are figurative. Oh, and here is a website I am offering as proof.
You are offering a weak, speculative, figurative arguement. Meanwhile others are offering factual data to back up their arguements.
Thirdwitness
Lets make it clear what you and other posters have said through this long thread. The 'legions' of problems that you have shown us in 'spades' can be summed up in one sentence.Interpretation by secular historians of the evidence shows no 40 year desolation of Egypt at the hands of Neb therefore what Jehovah prophecied thru Ezekiel cannot be true.
No, its this: Interpretation by secular historians of the historical evidence shows no 40 year desolation of Egypt at the hands of Neb. Therefore, what Jehovah prophesied through Ezekiel is a) true but may have happen at a later date, or b) FIGORATIVE. steve
Thirdwitness, you are the one who said that some of the bible is to be read as figurative. (See Tyre arguement) You want me to accept the Bible as fact, yet you admit some of the prophecy is to be read as figurative. Which ones? I am not sidetracking, I am asking how would I know if Tyre is to be figurative and Egypt is literal?
Thirdwitness,
And I am glad to see that many more are coming clean admitting that their claim is the Bible is unreliable.
You utter this statement as if it is something to be ashamed of, when in actuality it is the beginning of a reasoned research. The reason why you have been unable to comprehend that your 'arguments' have been soundly and repeatedly trounced in this thread, is due to a reality that you cannot accept, as did Joseph Rutherford past President of the WTS, that is the Bible is filled with inconsitencies.
Even if this were proved to you beyond doubt, as has been done in this thread, you are not able to accept the facts because it would undermine your faith in the Bible as a book of history and science, which it is clearly not. You are caught between a rock and a hard place Thirdwitness, and in many ways I feel badly for you, as many of us have walked your path before and know it to be an uncomfortable one. However, ignorance, while emotionally satisfying in the short term due to its easy access, is not a recipe for a useful life.
If you would like to discuss other inconsitencies in the Bible, apart from the one highlighted in this thread, do please let me know and we can start a new thread about this matter.
Best regards - HS
Or is this now your defense? "I am not talking about that in this thread. If you want to discuss that start another."
No, let's talk about it right here. That way we can track where each side is. Too many threads muddy the waters. Which muddying the waters is exactly what you want.
thirdwitness: Auldsoul, Can you be more specific about Hila stele. For example, provide some links to it and the other bm's you talk about. I know the WTS has address the Nab's mother chronicle and its inconsistencies.
In keeping with posting guidelines, I have addressed this off-topic request on the thread I started to discuss this issue.
thirdwitness and other pseudo-scholars: Let's discuss the Hillah Stele
AuldSoul
JW lurkers -- note how thirdwitless continues to avoid answering simple but necessary questions related to the topic he introduced, and continues to misrepresent the arguments of his opponents.
: Of course we know that parts of the bible is figurative.
Yes, and how do we know exactly which parts must be viewed as figurative? Whichever parts contradict known facts.
: You do not have to discuss Tyre for that to be acknowledged. For you to say this is symbolic therefore this must also be symbolic is a strawman argument.
Neither I nor any other posters have made that argument, so your statement is a strawman.
What I have argued (WHY DO YOU MAKE ME REPEAT MYSELF SO MANY TIMES?) is this: Any biblical statement that contradicts known fact must either be viewed as figurative, or as a disconfirmation of the Bible.
But you know all this. That's why you continue introducing red herrings and strawman arguments -- to avoid dealing with this fact.
Why do you not want to deal with this fact? Because you know that as soon as you do, you'll no longer be able to pretend having the "high ground" of "I stick to the Bible!", because you'll have no choice but to admit that parts of Ezekiel contradict known fact and therefore must be interpreted as figurative or symbolic by Bible believers.
: You could use that argument for anything written in the Bible. Talk about a red herring. But you have absolutely no basis for concluding that the 40 year desolation of Egypt was figurative. Not Biblical anyway. You base it merely on the fact that Egypt did not record such a 40 year desolation.
Yet another misrepresentation. As Leolaia, I and others have pointed out, that Egypt experienced no 40-year desolation is shown by a variety of evidence:
Regular Egyptian history records no such desolation.
Egyptian records of the lengths of lives of the Apis bulls form a continuous chronological record for the entire 26th Dynasty and show no period of desolation.
Herodotus and Josephus report on a variety of Egyptian activities during the period.
Egyptian population was probably between 3 and 5 million at that time, and if Egypt were desolated through 548 B.C., as you claim, it is impossible for that many people to become established less than one year later so that Egypt could form a viable military alliance with Babylon against Persia.
You've completely failed to discuss any of these facts.
: Ezekiel 29-32 is unambiguous and does not mince any words. Egypt was desolated by Neb for 40 years without inhabitant. To deny this is to deny God's word. To deny this is putting secular evidence over the Bible's word. Plane and simple.
Nope. To deny this is to deny that Ezekiel's words had a literal fulfillment but allows for a figurative fulfillment. I've given you several possibilities for a figurative fulfillment. So have other posters. JW lurkers will again note how you completely ignore this. Your claim is just a continuance of your strawman arguments.
: And I am glad to see that many more are coming clean admitting that their claim is the Bible is unreliable. That is what the honest person will do who wants to stick to 587.
Yet another lie, and total misrepresentation of the facts. The two authors I cited who believe that Ezekiel's 40-year prophecy had a figurative fulfillment were committed Christians, and would highly resent your smearing tactics. The same is true for the entire world of non-JW scholars who accept the Bible as God's Word and also reject the Watchtower's 607 date.
You are a deliberate deceiver!
: The 40 year desolation of Egypt which no one can overcome without sidestepping the scriptures
Just as the Watchtower Society sidesteps the Scriptures by interpreting Exodus' statement that God created everything in the heavens and the earth in six days as figurative. Yes, you certainly have a good point.
: only scratches the surface as to the proof of 607 from the Bible. The link provided at the start of this thread shows 'legions' of evidence.
The evidence given in this link is of the same dungy quality as everything you've posted in this thread -- a pack of misrepresentations, half-truths and flat-out lies.
: Lets make it clear what you and other posters have said through this long thread. The 'legions' of problems that you have shown us in 'spades' can be summed up in one sentence.
: Interpretation by secular historians of the evidence shows no 40 year desolation of Egypt at the hands of Neb therefore what Jehovah prophecied thru Ezekiel cannot be true.
I've shown above why your summary is a gross misrepresentation of what I've said. You continue to show yourself a liar.
AlanF
