The faithlessness here

by grissom6471 75 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Big Tex

  Did you know that one teaching of the Witnesses is that a child must have 2 eyewitnesses to "prove" that they were raped. Do you understand what this means?

  It means that 2 adults must stand and watch the child being raped, and do nothing to stop it. If they do, the child was not raped, therefore there is no crime.

  Secondly, these 2 eyewitnesses should be baptized Jehovah's Witnesses in good standing (after all you know how worldly people can lie). Then, and only then, will the elders take the child's story seriously.

  Now how many times will an act of child molestation take place in front of 2 other people? Do you honestly think that a pedophile rapes children in front of an audience? Do you think this takes place on the 50 yard line at some football stadium or something? You do realize that by worldly standards, i.e. the law, those 2 eyewitnesses are criminally liable and would be arrested for doing nothing to stop the child from being raped.

  Now then, in the 99.99% of cases where the child has no eyewitnesses, what then? Then the child is assumed to be lying. The elders will counsel the child and their parents to say nothing to anyone, including the police.

  This is what I was told by the elders in my congregation, in my father in law's congregation (who was an elder for 40 years), by 2 circuit overseers and by a district overseer. The 2 eyewitness rule is also found in the "Flock" book, which is distributed only to elders. In fact a circuit overseer sat in my living room and threatened me with disfellowshipping unless I "shut up" about what my father had done to me.

  The following is to be found in the book "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock". Page 111:

  "What kind of evidence is acceptable?

  There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if there is only one witness.

  Confession (admission of wrongdoing), either written or oral, may be accepted as conclusive proof without other corrobrating evidence.

  Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual) under improper circumstances is acceptable.

  The testimony of youths may be considered; it is up to the elders to determine if the testimony has the ring of truth.

  The testimony of unbelievers may also be considered, but it must be carefully weighed."

  Anyone, any organization, any religion that protects a pedophile while threatening a child is evil. Evil cannot co-exist with Jehovah. Therefore, the God of the Bible does not exist among Jehovah's Witnesses.

  I have many talks from various people in the organization from the governing body to other Bethel speakers and assemblies and district and circuit overseers. That is what Jehovah's Witnesses are about.

  Yes I have no doubt. What Jehovah's Witnesses do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
• 

  Pubsinger

  Guys, guys.

  The next time he starts a thread leave it unanswered.

  He doesn't need the companionship
• 

  Lady Liberty

  What does any of the dates of the kings have to do with
  
  being one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Lady Liberty, you keep saying "Where does the Bible say that"? as if

  the bible came right out and said it the way you wanted, you would comply?

  I don't think so. You just use that for excuses.

  Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not about facts and figures and
  
  dates and such. It is about being united in worship of the
  
  only true God.

  Grissom....

  I am amazed that you are making such claims and then cliam to be a Jehovahs Witness!! First, there are MANY other religions that claim to be united in their worship to God. Would you not agree?? Wether they truely are or not, that is their claim. (If you believe that the WItnesses are united, I invite you to read Crisis of Conscience written by a former Governing body member. It is quite eyeopening.) Right or wrong many others are firm with what they believe, they believe THEY are the ONLY channel for salvation , and they do not believe in accepting other faiths literature, as this would be panamount to "apostacy". So.. with that in mind let's address your next comment.

  Without secular data such as been confirmed by archeology, you cannot have any date. Not 607, not 539, and 1914. Try taking AWAY 607 and everything crumbles. At least all the doctorines that make the Witnesses different that is. If the dates don't matter, then would you not agree that it should be ok to believe whatever date you personally feels is correct? Try asking your Elders about this. They will make it very clear what you MUST believe.

  Try doing a little research on this issue. I gaurentee that you WILL BE SHOCKED as 99% of us here were. Try tp porve 607 WITHOUT any of the Societys literature. Then when you have "proof", come back here and "help" us with your findings. The Elders told us there "was NO PROOF FOR 607". That being the case most faithful witnesses are putting their faith in ones who are self proclaimed and who use non existant dates of events to prove they are Gods wife!

  And just a note: I spent over a year desperatly trying to PROVE 607 and that the Society WAS correct. I WANTED it to be. Because I wanted to "save" my parents from what I believed to be "apostate" thinking on the issue. But after much prayer and diligent study, I concluded, "It is what it is!". I could NOT ignore the TRUTH!

  To make such claims and teachings as the ones I previously listed WITHOUT scriptural support is sticking your head in the sand. Especially if you ignore the very date that gives such ones their "authority" to make such statements without scriptural backing. And that date is 607.Let me now share with you statements that are from Jehovah himself...

  ONE is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers.

  You are NOT under law but under deserved kindness.

  ALL who are led by God's spirit, THESE are God's sons.

  One body there is, and one spirit, even as you were called in the ONE HOPE to which you were called; ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all persons, who is over all and through all and in all.

  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and MEN, an man, Christ Jesus.

  It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times and seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.

  These are in CONTRAST to the eight points I noted to you before. There is not one simple clearcut statement in the Scripture that can be used to point to and say, "Here, the Bible clearly says....."regading those eight points. Yet they have been taught as if there IS scriptural backing.

  One other thing... if you reject all of what I have said. Think about this.. How would you feel if yu found out that Jesus was NOT your personal mediator?? You would most likely be angry correct?? Well, try looking into that with the literature. You will find in THe Watchtower 1979 4/1 pg. 31 this:

  Questions

  from Readers

  •

  Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?

  The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.

  Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.

  Does this not bother you?? It should!!

  You are critical of those of us that bring to the for early publications and teachings. Let me just say that the scriptures say Jehovah DOES NOT change! What was "truth" a thousand years will stand to time indefinate as "truth". Truth does not change! If it did, it was not truth to begin with. Therefore, the old teachings, and old literature are NOTHING like they were. They have changed. In fact if I was today to go preach from door to door the OLD "truths" that they taught way back in the early bible student days, I would be disfellowshipped for apostacy! Why is that ?? Has not the Master Christ Jesus chosen them out of Christendom and given them food at the proper time?? Was that "food" bad?? Perhaps it was never from Jesus at all! Otherwise, WHY would the SLAVE REJECT what the MASTER had approved??

  These are all things for you to think about. Too you may ask: Why does the cd rom for the Watchtower Library only goes back so far?? There is a reason my friend. The old teachings have been abandonded. And most JWs have not a clue what was being taught back then. You owe it to yourself and your God to check into what we are all trying to tell you!

  Our worship to Jehovah MUST be based on TRUTH or it will not be acceptable to him. So again, I invite you make a thorough examination just as you invite those in the ministry to do. Before you cast stones at us, would it not be wise to first examine what it is you are throwing stones at??

  Sinceley,

  Lady Liberty
• 

  parakeet

  ***I have many talks from various people in the organization from the governing body to other Bethel speakers and assemblies and district and circuit overseers. That is what Jehovah's Witnesses are about.***
  
  hello, grissom6471.
  
  Many years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, medical tests revealed that I was rH-negative. Doctors advised to accept a Rhogam injection, which is made from blood fractions, to prevent the possibility of rH-related birth defects, including mental retardation. I took that injection despite the WT's (then) ban on blood fractions. Another sister in my cong was also pregnant; she refused the shot and yelled in my face that "It's BLOOD!" My child was born healthy; her child was born with mental retardation.
  THAT IS WHAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE ABOUT.
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Dear Parakeet,

  Oh my gosh! Thank goodness you used the good sence Jehovah gave you!! Can you imagine how she must feel now?? Oh thinking about this makes me ill. I am glad you commented!! Grissom needs to see how many have paid the price for error in teaching!! MANY such as this sister are paying the price. Many have lost loved ones because of organ transplants because it was considered canabalistic, only to find years later it is a conscience matter. Blood fractions too were once off limits, ALL blood was to be poured out!! And yet how many died for not taking them, but by todays policy, fractions are a conscience matter as well!!

  Does the Society go back and reinstate the many who chose to go against policy?? Of course not!! Why not??? The answer as sick as it is, is obvious!

  I am so VERY grateful I finally listened to what my parents were trying all along to show me! BEFORE a tragidy took place where I would of allowed my child, my mate, or my self to die for a policy that could change at any given moment.

  The light gets brighter phrase is used to cover virtually error in teaching! To even think that analagy through... if the light gets brighter, then more light is added to something for a even clearer picture and understanding. It does NOT however, revert back to the darkness, darkness to light back to darkness again! Yet AGAIN I stress, Truth does not change!! Yet MANS opinions do!! But NOT GODS!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
• 

  WTWizard

  There is nothing to put faith in within the Washtowel Slaveholdery except false prophesies. It is common knowledge around here that they went all out and predicted the end would come in 1975, and we are still here 33 years and counting later. And 1975 wasn't even the first time they pulled that. They pulled that in 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, and 1941 as far as I am aware (as well as other times). None of them came true.

  And they are still pulling it, though this time without definitive dates. The assumption is to make people assume it is coming within a few months. As recently as 2006, I remember seeing where they had the "Our Deliverance Is At Hand" Grand Boasting Sessions. They were talking as if we wouldn't even make it out of 2006. And they had the NR37 Waste of Paper Distribution Campaign that fall that was supposed to have set off the Great Tribulation. Where IS it? It is now 2008, and still no sign of it!

  Look also at the ruined lives of those that followed the advice from the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. They told people in 1969 that college was a complete waste of time, and they would never grow old in this system. Now almost 40 years later, many are facing retirement with no savings or pension! Marriages were ruined by the oral sex ban (which was taken back in 1978). Quite a few have developed health problems and had faith in Jehovah to take care of them (or that the "new order" would take care of them), only to be left in the lurch. I have myself seen one person die of a heart attack while getting ready for field circus, and a number of others have posted having people dying during or shortly after boasting sessions that they should not have made. And now they are repeating the mistakes!

  Faith? To have true faith, you cannot have a record of consistently botched predictions and bad advice. I, for one, will not put faith in any group that has had this track record. And especially when they are repeating the problems that caused trouble in 1969. One definition of stupidity is doing the same things and expecting a different outcome. And it is blatant that this organization is doing just that.