Laughing laughing laughing

by darcy 160 Replies latest jw friends

  • free2beme

    What do we make of it?

    Your doubting and have not yet come to a conclusion that makes you feel well. So you are taking the step of making fun of something that is making you uneasy, with a hope that with each word you type, you believe what you say all the more. Soon, very soon, the next step will happen and you will find yourself reading something and making fun of it and then thinking about it during that little deep thought time before you go to sleep. You will sleep on it, and wake in the morning to that thought still there. Oh how it will bother you, and you will do like most Witnesses who see something they think they are strong enough for and then realize their not, you will bounce away from this site as fast and as complete as possible. Yet, one day, while at one of those meetings or conventions, something will be said and that seed of doubt with grow a little more. Soon you will make arrogant comments like, "nothing could make me leave the Witnesses!" and even find yourself making comments to other Witnesses about all this foolish stuff. Laughing all the way!!!! Then and only then, will you remember this time and realize, you are truly done and it is over my friend and you are on the path of exit and nothing is going to stop that now.

    Just remember denial is not something that leads to strength of faith, it leads to healing.

  • LDH

    Thank you Fleshy.

    She might be a house nigga, but she's still a slave.

    Feel me?

  • Confession

    Do you folks really think this young lady's comments call for such a harsh reaction? What am I missing here? Yes, she named the thread, "Laughing, Laughing, Laughing," but her posts here have demonstrated a remarkable open-mindedness--and she seems quite respectful.

    Of course she doesn't get it yet. But considering the comments she's left, it seems clear that at some point she's going to figure it out.

    We'll be here when you do.


  • Es

    well said LDH

    Man if i got called Malicious just for laughing imagine what your going to get called


  • mkr32208

    I'm confused as to how Matthew is being fulfilled today! Less people die in war today (as a percentage of population) than at any other point in recorded history! Same with disease, starvation, earthquake, fire, flood... You name it!

    Plus it seems to me that the scripture says 'look out for the people who tell you then end is coming because of all this crap' Aren't the JW's the ones saying that?

    607 and Malawi were huge issues for me as well! Maybe you need to do some more research? The fact that you WANT to live forever won't make it true! I want to be able to fly should I toss myself off my house?

  • What-A-Coincidence

    OK ... I finally got caught up with all 666 pages of posts. umm. 1st welcome Darcy, welcome smellsgood, welcome the other one. Am I missing anyone else?

    We got to think what brought US here ... I believe we have put more stock into the WTBTS and did not receive any dividends. Darcy here seems like she has not placed a lot ot stock into the WTBTS.

    Every congregation has it's own personality which is driven by the elders. I would like to know what type of elders she has ... by the sounds of it, they maybe ones who are on the fringes of departing the borg or maybe each one has a kid in college and do not "push" certain ideologies.

    Usually your little kingdom hall is all you know about the WTBTS. That is where the Internet comes in and you see the ORGANIZATION as whole.

    Well took the pill and left the matrix.

    stick around "Trinity"

  • seattleniceguy

    Hello Darcy,

    Welcome to the board. Always nice to see a new intelligent face.

    I wanted to respond to one thing you said early on:

    Not to offend, but why doesn't anyone here quote from recent literature instead of all this stuff that's years old. That's like criticicizing Windows 95, instead of examining Windows XP.

    I used to feel exactly the same way. Criticizing Windows 95 in an attempt to show that Microsoft's products don't stand up against modern competitors (such as Mac OS X) would indeed be silly, as it wouldn't be an apples-apples comparison.

    However, the unique thing about the WT Society is that they claim to have been God's sole channel of communication to humankind since being appointed in 1919. In fact, this is the central doctrine that establishes the authority of the Governing Body. So one might expect that intelligent and reasonable things have been published since that time.

    Instead, the fact of the matter is that if you look back even a scant 20 or 30 years, the publications start getting really embarassing, really fast. Yes, they really did say that organ transplants were equivalent to cannibalism (, and yes, if you had disagreed with them back then (even though you would have been absolutely correct) you would have risked being disfellowshipped and losing your friends and family.

    Have you seen what they wrote in the 1920s? For some really good laughs, check this article out (, which boldly declares that gravity is a result of electrical attraction rather than mass as is universally accepted. My favorite part is where it talks about the various different kinds of atoms - gold, silver, lead, wood, or glass ("wood atoms"?! "glass atoms"?! I've never seen those on a periodic table!)

    Obviously, it's completely crazy. But there are several important points to make here. First, even at the time, it would have been obvious to any educated person that the article was complete and unadulterated bullshit, excuse the expression. Clearly, the author was pulling this stuff directly from his uninformed imagination. And yet, "spiritual" (real: gullible) people took this as "the deep things of God." So first of all, you should ask yourself what your reaction would have been as an educated person if presented with this copy of the Golden Age back then. Would you have been right in laughing them off as nutjobs? Sure. But that raises a serious question. At exactly what point did they go from being nutjobs to God's sole channel?

    And there's a more serious question. If you read carefully, you will find total fabrications (as in the Gravitation article above) and blatant misrepresentations of sources throughout the entire history of the organization. It seems that the Society has surprisingly little regard for accuracy. One might well wonder how such poor scholarship (to put it most generously) can have much to do with truth. The fact is that the authors don't seem to have much concern at all for getting it right.

    There's one more reason that older publications are illuminating. The Society often retells its own history. Only when they do so, they introduce a lot of creative revisions. The story of what happened over 1975 is particularly deceptive. To hear the WT tell it, they never said anything and a couple overzealous lone wolves got all worked up over nothing. You might be surprised to find out how it really went down, by looking at all the things they actually did print. For example, they stated categorically that young people in the late 1960s would never go on to fulfill a career, and that this system was due to end in "a few years." (

    They also dramatically misrepresent their history when it comes to the things they said in 1914, 1925, and elsewhere. The big question is, if this is the truth, then why all the deception?

    Anyway, I hope that provides some food for thought. Best wishes to you on your journey, and I hope to see you around!


  • bikerchic

    Welcome to JWD Darcy!

    I do hope you stay around and really investigate all that has been exposed here about the WBTS.

    seattleniceguy beautifully written reply. I do hope you read his reply Darcy.

  • BizzyBee

    Great thread, Darcy and welcome!

    A few thoughts on ‘laughing’ x 3:


    Plus, nothing else that the WTS has ever promised or prophecied has ever come true, so it seems pretty silly to believe that they got this living-forever-if-you-are-a-good-little-dub-all-your-miserable-life thing right either.

    Yup – can anyone name one single thing the WTS has ever gotten right in terms of prophecy?


    Maybe I like the Witnesses cause I'm laid back.

    This is particularly revealing and interesting. JW’s are the least laid-back people on the planet – they have to watch their backs constantly because they’ve been taught that their standing before God is totally conditional upon their compliance with the dictates of the WTS – hours in FS, how they dress, who they associate with, what they do for a living, whether they get an education, their medical treatment, what they read, what they do for a living, how they spend their leisure time and even what music they listen to! And they know that if they deviate from what is acceptable, their brothers and sisters will be only too happy to rat them out.

    Ahhhh……but you are laid back! This indicates to me that you don’t take the tenets of this sect very seriously; for you it’s just an exploration or diversion like agnosticism, wiccan, apathy, French, the Pentatuch, etc. (which, BTW, exploring is a good thing to do when you’re young).

    But consider this:


    I just get a little skeptical when I feel someone is being flippant about the sincerity of people who have lost so much to this destructive org.

    Darcy, you must appreciate that most witnesses take the demands of the WTS very seriously – to the point that it has many, many times cost lives – medically, through suicide, insanity, neglect of health, etc. And it has created emotional pain beyond belief for families torn apart by shunning practices.

    And finally,

    The big question is , if this is the truth, then why all the deception?

    Deception includes changing or deleting their history. As established so well, why would God’s mouthpiece need to do that?

    I’ve often thought that the “truth” is totally contingent on the blind faith acceptance of the WTS as God’s visible organization on earth. Take that outrageous premise out of the equation and the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses collapse like a wet cardboard suitcase.

  • darcy

    my oh my.

    well it's true that on the man's side of everything, the Witnesses by no means have a clean slate. They're flawed. Every organization is. They mirror crazy puritans... maybe they are?

    Ah ha... oh goodness. I've gotten alot of silent and open challenges alike to defend why I am a Witness. I'll tell you that it's that ambigious sense of mental peace that I like. Oh sure, I know lots of friends who have that metaphorical picket fence up their ass... when they don't need to have it there. God knows, I enjoy life, I live it, and it's good. (No, I'm not blessed with money or social connections)

    Anyone here read Ayn Rand? The Fountainhead was a beautiful book. She helped me to verbalize my feelings on this issue. That I do not have to give up my ego to serve God. If you've read, you remember Toohey who propagated that the ultimate for a man was to completely sacrifice who he was to a higher being. Well, he was the essential villain of the novel. Often, with words like subjection, slave, and sacrifice used in the Kingdom Hall it's easy to be down about the truth. Very easy. I've never liked the idea of subjecting myself. Perhaps I'm a control freak like that; I want to own who I am. So, after reading the novel and writing an extensive journal entry, I asked the question of myself: Can I be myself, can I own who I am and still give respectful worship to Jehovah? So, that's what the past few months of my life have been about. Can it be done, or simply verbalized, this owning oneself.

    Well, to do so is in complete opposition to religion. However, I decided to compromise. I came to the conclusion that it could be done once it was recognized that it is Jehovah (and his son secondarily) who deserves complete submission and none other. So, I show great respect for the Scriptures, but now I reach other fork in the road. Namely, how should the any "channel of God" be treated.

    With respect. Not complete unquestioning submission. I've always been encouraged to do things according to the Scriptures. It's odd, but when my mother was going through her divorce, it was heavily discouraged by the elders, the Society, but I pushed her continually towards it, and from our reading of the Scriptures, it seemed justified. Therefore, I told her, in time the Society will catch up. Within two years, they began to bend a little on the issue that domestic violence may be a good reason not to be with someone. They won't say divorce is OK yet, but there's a greater emphasis on how to prevent it. I'm not worried. They'll catch up.

    You see, I respect the Society, but I am not a slave to them. I regard them, and choose how I shall react to their dictates. For the most part, it's easy to oblige. Maybe I'm just a modest person at heart and so it's easy for me. I don't know.

    But religion is always a choice. Not an absolute. Everything is a choice. Some choices are clearer than others, like I'm not going shoot up cocaine, and others are vaguer like Should I see the Da Vinci Code movie?

    As many have pointed out, the WTS has not always been correct. They're working on it. If indeed, it is spirit directed, it sounds as though Jehovah is letting them do exactly what he's done with nearly every servant in history: struggle. From his viewpoint, or so it seems, that's the best way for humans to learn. It's that whole parable of Adam and Eve and why suffering is allowed. And you parents, don't tell me you haven't at one point said of you're child, well he/she will just have to learn the hard way.

    So, why would God do that to us? Except wait, is it a proactive doing on his part, or rather isn't this confusion something we've done to ourselves. Humans, in general, seem great at giving themselves a very hard time about really simple things.

    I used to be extremely uptight about things. I remember at one point being upset with the brothers and sisters for taking a coffee break during service, and therefore doing relatively nothing during the two hours we had. Now, I'd say, wait, does it really matter? I mean, is Jehovah going to call me on the line for taking a coffee break during service? Am I going to get in a bunch of hot water over it... well it's subjective. Entirely. The yes or no is whatever you think it is, and that answer applies only to you.

    Thinking back to my original idea in this post (cause I know I've wandered, forgive), and that idea of not giving up the ego to serve. Here's a classic, consider Biblical examples. I mean, these guys had character. Daniel, top governmental dude, stubborn as hell, terrified of the supernatural (remember how he always collapsed when the angel appeared). David, a fornicator, a murderer, a plotter and schemer, an outlaw. His son Solomon, seems like he was a bit depressed... everything is vanity, right? He goes on and on about all the stuff he has and does; this is like the guy who has lavish parties every weekend and owns every gadget and toy imaginable, and he's bored. But ok ok, I've gone on long enough. My point is, these guys gave Jehovah respectful worship, and sure at times they were grovelling for forgiveness (especially David), and yet they weren't Stepford wives, if you get my gist. They lived life.

    So, although sometimes it's really easy for Witnesses to fall into this clone mode, it's wrong in every way. And I can only imagine how unhappy Jehovah must be to look down upon the pious of the world who torment themselves in every way possible. Sometimes I imagine it's a carry over from Adam and Eve, we're so burdened by their guilt, we can't even be happy anymore.

    Moving along, often with ALL pious people, they do this constant second hand living. Living through others. Watching others to make sure they're in the clear. Looking for justification in others. I'm using Ayn Rand terminology again. My perspective is I can serve Jehovah without being a second hander. I'm not Very good at it yet, but I'm still trying. I like that not fretting over what everybody else is doing. Some of you may find fault that I would still be alarmed if a Witness friend were to invite me over to see The Exorcist or something, or to play with the weegie board. (did I spell that wrong?) Those are the obvious deals. Those are the things that ones in the organization should be concerned with. But this whole, I think her dress is too low cut, well that's personal opinion. Sure, there's going to be a point at which the line must be drawn, but as long as it doesn't look like something for the wedding night, there's no reason for the brothers and sisters to be dividing against one another.

    It's the brotherly love deal. Be prepared to forgive, however since forgiveness is often misconstrued as condescending to accept the one you are forgiving, perhaps then it is wiser to be prepared not to make an issue out of it, to not be overbearingly self righteous. After all, if the every religion on earth is flawed, then what makes us so sure of ourselves as individuals that we can go it alone?

    So, I've found a faith whose bible based beliefs I agree with, not including prophecy. I do however put more pout in the Witnesses version of the end than say the Baptist rapture.

    Well, this is mostly opinion. But I get the feeling scripture spouting wouldn't be accepted from me.

    Ah well. Let's see what y'all make of this now.



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