OK believers, time to put up or shut up...

by Gregor 238 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  kid-A

  It reminds me of a little kid who when asked a question answers "Because" and then when asked "Because why?" answers back with "Because".

  Precisely, and perhaps the most frustrating element when trying to have a rational conversation with a religionist. Belief based on faith inevitably must

  rely on subjective, experiential 'feelings' rather than demonstrable, tangible facts or any reasonable evidence. This is why I long ago gave up discussing religion or god with my JW parents.

  When we get to the end of the conversation where I have used logic and reason to argue against these silly supernatural forces, their scripted, final comeback is

  invariably "who are YOU to question the mind of god?" LOL......followed by them leaving in a huff to go off and lick their wounds. By the logic and proof of principle

  demanded of the "believer" , anything I perceive (pink elephants, little green men, tooth fairies, peter the rabbit, the giant pumpkin) cannot be disputed logically because I

  have 'faith' that I did indeed 'experience' said events and/or perceptions.
• 

  lovelylil

  startingover,

  the responses are only childish to non believers like you. I find the insinuation that somehow non-blievers are more intelligent and can give better responses to be insulting. You cannot be a believer without faith - because we don't have the answers to everything. but we trust that one day we will. We recognize there is a bigger picture. Many here have said far more than "just because" but you are not willing to accept their answers. And the whole thread was started just to make an arguement which is exactly what happened. Like someone already said, believers have enough proof but unbelievers will never have enough proof. That is so profound and true.

  To say if the thread was reversed, things would have been different is just your opinion because you dont know how it would have turned out.

  The only reason it seems that believers are angered is the responses we get back are insulting to our intelligence. I for one and many others here on the forum have not tried to force our opinions on anyone. We only responded to try to give our opinion on things with the hope it could help someone. No one here was saying we have all the truth and if you dont believe what we believe you are stupid or going to be destroyed by our big God, blah, blah, blah.

  One good lesson I learned from being in the WT is to RESPECT everyones opinion and right to have their own opinion. There is no absolute right or wrong. No one has all the answers. If you ask though for someones opinion, they are going to give it to you. As in the case of the person who started the thread. He asked, people gave, but he simply does not like the answers and no answer will be correct.
• 

  Gregor

  Well, well. Isn't this a revealing development of a topic discussion on this particular site, a site that primarily focuses on the shortcomings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? So, let's pretend for a moment that the name of the topic was -

  "OK, Jehovah's Witnesses Incorporated, time to put up or shut up"

  I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored. "We reject the WTS and their BS. We only believe our own BS, and it really pisses us off when someone points it out to us."

  Many of your posts which started out as a defense of your beliefs in a loving God/Father/Jesus ended up as an admission that this is what you choose to believe and how dare I question your right to believe whatever you want to! And I'm the one who sounds angry?. (I prefer 'frustrated', but that's ok, I can handle it.)

  Your replies remind me of the bumper sticker I saw recently on a nice car with a 'Fish' emblem nailed on the sheet metal of the trunk, it said "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it!"

  For the umpteenth time, I repeat, you have the right to believe whatever you want. Your self image neds to be identified with an "Organized Superstition".

  Sirona put it well a few posts back

  Where "gods" come in is that human beings attempt to comprehend the underlying energies and so called "supernatural" aspects of things. They try to tap into the "source". In doing so humans have created their own faces to this "All" - like Jesus, Allah, Isis, Diana, Shiva, Buddha, etc. These are human creations as a means to understanding these underlying currents. Each of these "gods" represent aspects of the universe and are involved in myth systems which can teach humans something.

  I'm cool with that
• 

  sonnyboy

  But, But, Sonnyboy....Eve and Adam weren't wanting for anything....so you can't compare them with a hungry dog.

  Maybe they were wanting for what Satan promised them?
• 

  jgnat

  Gregor, you have not responded directly to my challenges.
• 

  Mulan

  What's wrong with, "accepting Jesus as your personal Savior?" What's wrong with one leaving a religion to embrace God Himself?

  What's wrong with surrendering to Christ when He said Himself that He was the Way, Truth, and the Life?

  What's wrong with having a personal relationship with God instead of following a religion that has no strength?

  And, most of all..., what's wrong with a FAITH relying on God alone and living a fuller life?

  There is nothing wrong with any of those things if it makes you happy. I'm happy for you.

  I don't need it. I prefer for people to keep their religion to themselves. I've had enough religion to last me several lifetimes.

  Believe me, I'M THROUGH!!!

  I don't know whether god exists or not. I don't care. It doesn't matter in the slightest to me and to the way I live my life. I'm a really good person, with a wonderful family, wonderful amazing husband and life is good without god and especially without religion.
• 

  lilybird

  I

  don't need it. I prefer for people to keep their religion to themselves. I've had enough religion to last me several lifetimes.

  Believe me, I'M THROUGH!!!

  I don't know whether god exists or not. I don't care. It doesn't matter in the slightest to me and to the way I live my life. I'm a really good person, with a wonderful family, wonderful amazing husband and life is good without god and especially without religion.

  Now.. that's a post I can truly relate to and agree with!!!!!
• 

  kid-A

  "I don't know whether god exists or not. I don't care. It doesn't matter in the slightest to me and to the way I live my life. I'm a really good person, with a wonderful family, wonderful amazing husband and life is good without god and especially without religion"

  Mulan, you're my hero!!!
• 

  Hellrider

  Gregor:

  Well, well. Isn't this a revealing development of a topic discussion on this particular site, a site that primarily focuses on the shortcomings of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? So, let's pretend for a moment that the name of the topic was -

  "OK, Jehovah's Witnesses Incorporated, time to put up or shut up"

  I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored. "We reject the WTS and their BS. We only believe our own BS, and it really pisses us off when someone points it out to us

  Lol, that`s pretty good. That`s definitely something to think about. I like the wording too (in church lady voice): "Well, well...isn`t this special...".

  But on the other hand, is it really necessary to throw the baby out with the water? The problem is that mankind seems to have this predisposition for religion. Religion has been with us since we were living in caves. You can be as an aggressive, intellectual atheist as you like, you won`t be able to beat something like that. In my opinion, there`s bad religion, and then there`s some that can be "good". Good religion is religion that doesn`t corrupt the individual, and make the individual more evil than they are predisposed of being. Some religions, and religious sects, I believe, do this. I have met many evil super-religious people, but many good "slightly" religious people. I think the best alternative is to view "moderate" religion as good for the masses. After all, the last illusion is that man can rid himself of all illusions. A lot of people would be lost without the belief in God. But on the other hand, a lot of people could do much better with a much more moderate and modern version of their religion too.
• 

  startingover

  Mulan

  If my wife didn't spend all the time she does at the KH and if I didn't constantly hear a believer (actually Christian) spout off about their beliefs and constantly mention the praying they are doing and if I didn't see so many fish symbols on the backs of cars, I would be able to let it go alot better.

  The bottom line all you believers, I only believe in one less god than you do.