Atheists Worst Nightmare!

by SickofLies 75 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • dorayakii
    dorayakii

    "When I look at a building, how can I know there was a build-ERR? Can't see him, hear him, touch him, taste him or smell him, so how can i know there was a build-ERR?... Well the building is absolute proof there was a build-ERR. I couldn't want better proof there was a build-ERR"

    "When I look at a painting, how can I know there was a paint-ERR? Can't see him, hear him, touch him, taste him or smell him, so how can i know there was a paint-ERR?... Well the painting is absolute proof there was a paint-ERR. I couldn't want better proof there was a paint-ERR"

    BWAHAHAHA his accent is funny....

    but seriously now, although i lean more towards atheisms than agnosticism, i believe that it really is physically and philosophically impossile to prove either that a God does or does not exist, so i try not to get into arguements with creationists. Although i believe the evidence points more toward there not being a God, i believe trying to prove there is not one is an exercise in futility.

    By way of comparison, the complexity of many languages by which we can describe both concrete and abstract concepts appears to have been invented by a council. The Latin case system is a prime example... this seemingly elegant system has been proven to be a result of the decay of auxilairies, which themselves are the decay of abstract verbs, which themselves are the decay of concrete verbs. All language, with its thousands of word-categories, phonological systems and varieties, is likely a decay of concrete nouns, verbs and the two cardinal demonstratives (this, that). This is a pattern seen even in recorded language history, which is projected into pre-historical times and is able to expalin how language cold even have evolved from a series of grunts, (as long as those grunts were distinctly unique and at one point corresponded to a handful of concrete objects and simple actions). So an outward appearance of complexity does not necessarily dictate the presence of a creator. In language, the evidence points toward chaos and disorder *creating* order in a condenced, rich and convenient form (a theory propagated in "The Unfolding of Language" by Guy Deutscher).... The comparison is not 100% relevant, but shows to a certain extent, how complexity can arise from simplicity in a medium which we use daily without thinking...

    ...but how do we know that syntax, semantics and pragmatics were not place in our brains by a creator, ie. the Tower of Babel story? Well, we don't. Trying to prove or disprove the Tower of Babel is an exercise in futility... The creator of these proto-languages *could* have invented them and implanted them in the brains or the tower build-ERRS, with the corresponding "proof" that these languages already were spoken before and changed and evolved from a corresponding ancestor, to their contemporary forms, how do we know? The fact is, it very well could have happened that way, but... but I chose to believe that the evidence points toward there not being a creator of language... i believe that the Tower of Babel explanation contains too many ifs and buts and is surrounded by stories of other "unlikely" events (and by "unlikely" i mean not relevant or current to my personal experience)...

    Think of it this way, how do we know that history was not implanted in our brains, and that everything we remember did not happen but was merely emplanted in our brains to make us believe we are part of some glorious civilisation (eg. 1984, We Can Remember It For You Wholesale [Total Recall] The Truman Show, Matrix, Dark City)? The simple truth is that, depending on the potence and benevolence of the hypothetical creator of these scenarios, we cannot be 100% sure... in fact, we cannot even be 1% sure. This makes the arguement for or against a God an exercise in futility... all we can do is gather evidence and come to theory. There is no point in being dogmatic about that theory or trying to convince others of its veracity.

    I agree with creationists that the mere existance of all the viruses, diseases, illnesses that befall us don't necessarily prove that there wasn't a designer (although they lend enormous weight to that hypothesis). However, i don't believe the arguement that we ate a fruit and "fell from grace" is adequate or satifactory to explain away the presence of these problems, especially if one makes grandiose claims of omnipotence, omnibenevolence and omniscience for ones God. Again the "God" explanation to me contains too many ifs and buts and is surrounded by a plethora of stories and fables about snakes and trees that is just not relevant to my daily understanding of the world, it has nothing to do with my personal experience. Therefore i chose not to believe in the "God " theory, i choose to believe that diseases, illness and syndromes result from either imperfect or mutated reproduction, or macro- and micro-organisms being in competition with each other.

    That is all that needs to be proven, going beyond that, for me, is an effort in futility, but i will not argue with a creationist, because their mind is different from mine, the way they see evidence is different, they may have a propensity to believe in a God, just as I have a propensity not to. Once a person is sure, it is unlikely that any amount of "evidence" will pursuade either party to change their view. Even though definately an atheist, i still cannot be dogmatic, or imperious with my beliefs. If the fact that a banana has 5 outer sides and the circle resulting from our index finger and thumb forming a ring has 5 inner sides is enough for some people, fine. If the complexity of the eye or the brain is enough for other people, fine. I'm not against faith or belief, but i am against dogmatism and coersion

    The video is a lot of speclation and belief - that's what evolution is. "Could be this, might be that". Oh, all evolution had to do is stick a lense in there. How'd that happen?

    This demonstrates a key difference between evolutionists and creationists. I think it is a good thing to speculate, instead of stating categorically and dogmatically that something is true. "Could be this, might be that" is intrinsically better than "the Bible says this so that is true".

    It is better to decide what the facts are on evidence, and even when evidence is prsented, to be flexible as to what could have happened. It is harmful to decide what the facts are *before* the evidence is found. Even more harmful to try to manipulate evidence to fit into an ancient book. For many creationists the Bible must be true, whatever the evidence. When new evidence is discovered, it is squeezed to try and fit in with biblical stories. Their beliefs are always so sure and never change... There is a big difference between looking for evidence and formulating a theory based on it, and looking for evidence to try to prove an existing theory.

  • SickofLies
    SickofLies
    As for you going to hell along with the other unbelieving atheist evolutionists... it will be your condemnation unless you believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him, but I certainly don't hope you go there. I really don't.

    So, if I don't kiss Hanks Ass, he'll kick the shit out of me?

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    (Warning: naughty euphemism ahead!)

    I have always thought that a Supreme Intellect must be behind the shape of my... uh... "Banana". It fits perfectly in my hand (or my wifes), and the end is shaped perfectly for "ease of entry".

    Unfortunately, unlike the Banana in the video, mine has been known to squirt in your eye when popped.

    OK... on a more serious note: if the fit between the Banana and the human hand "proves" it was designed by god, can I assume that the designer of the Mango, or perhaps the Pomegranite, was a sadistic S.O.B.??

    ~Q, of the "In a fear inspiring way my Banana is wonderfully made" class

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow

    ....... there may be more fruits in that video than just the banana

    I'm with you there swan.

  • atypical
    atypical

    So........bananas fit in our hands - Ok, I'm convinced. Back to the opium den I go...

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    mdb:

    Actually, sin brought death and decay into the world. That's our doing.

    It's certainly not my doing. Death and decay were around long before I ever existed, and I'm not aware of anything I've done which has contributed further to the problem.

    Cancer, diabetes, etc are a result of the wonderful things man has made and done which destroy the planet, our health, and make animals and plants extinct. We're the cause and we reap what we sow.

    Now, somehow, I caused cancer and diabetes as well. Isn't your god the only one who can cause a cell to mutate? How does making animals and plants extinct cause the human body to be unable to produce insulin?

    Yes, in the OT accounts God did pour out pestilence and famine on the nations. It was because of their sin and God does not take joy in doing it, but He is a righteous God and judge.

    What was their sin exactly? Worshipping other gods? Living on the land that "YHWH of Armies" had promised to his people? For someone who doesn't enjoy wiping people out, your god sure does it a lot.

    Our actions have a consequence.

    What action can a newborn baby have done to cause them to be born with a life-threatening heart condition or a painful bone disease? If the actions of humans have consequences (by which you seem to mean divine punishment) then what will be the consequence to your god for inflicting such pain and suffering on innocent people?

    Is Satan responsible? No, Satan is not fully responsible. He tempts, we choose. Men have to take responsibility for their actions.

    Yes, men - and women - do have to take responsibility for their actions. Obviously they can't do this if some almighty dictator is holding them accountable for the imagined crimes of people who lived thousands of years ago. Fortunately, both your god and your devil are wholly imaginary.

    As for you going to hell along with the other unbelieving atheist evolutionists... it will be your condemnation unless you believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him, but I certainly don't hope you go there. I really don't.

    Yes you do. You clearly take delight in the barbaric actions of your primitive god. Gleefully, you declare that a child with cystic fibrosis is just getting what he deserves, that the Dalai Lama should burn for all eternity, and that our mere existence is something that deserves punishment.

    As sick as it sounds to those of us who are more civilised than you, you probably take comfort in a belief system that doesn't require you to think or make moral choices, only to slavishly follow for fear of the wrath of your vengeful, jealous god. I hope someday you can find the peace that comes with being free of such primitive superstitions. It will require you to think, though, and you don't seem like someone who'll enjoy that.

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