Confession me reply to your message RE Richie

by Beep,Beep 84 Replies latest jw friends

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Beep,Beep:

    One note plainly has (Very Rare) at the end.

    If a law enforcement official was told to write "(Very Rare)" beside a hand written note regarding the frequency with which motorists run stop signs, would that make the statement "(Very Rare)" true? Obviously, that would be an incorrect observation and the fact that the note was present would in no way reflect on the actual prevalence of the criminal conduct.

    That said, I do not believe the problem of pedophilia/child molestation and the cultural resistance to disclosure of that behavior is more pronounced among Jehovah's Witnesses than in other high-control, clan-centric religious groups. I also do not believe it is less pronounced, which would be the expectation given their advocation of themselves as a "cleansed" people, chosen by God as representatives to the world who are without blemish.

    I believe that any injustice can be corrected without resorting to theft, lying or any other form of dishonesty. Using your example of the company dumping toxic chemicals, couldn't there be another way? Video the dumping maybe or maybe just tell someone in a position to do something about it? The irresponsible course is the "the ends justifies the means" course. If you steal once for a "good cause" what's to stop you from stealing when you will profit from it? Or lie when it serves your interests?

    I really don't know where to begin, here. You believe that the God disclosed in the Bible opposes the concept of the end justifying the means?

    What, then, do you say of the woman with the flow of blood? According to the Mosaic Law, what should have been done to her for entering a crowd in an "unclean" state? Jesus did not even heal her, she was simply healed through him.

    What, then, do you say of the woman who was of Samaria and selflessly referred to herself as a puppy begging for table scraps to impress Jesus with her sincerity of faith that he could make her child well?

    What then do you say of David's deceit with the Phillistines, pretending to be stark-raving mad while running from Saul?

    What, for that matter, of the attack of Gideon? Was this not trickery to achieve a specific objective, an end in sight, a purpose or goal in mind that justified the methods used?

    This is not to say that I applaud such "end justifies the means" thinking, I just find it particularly sharp to the palate when such an objection comes from a member of a group that frequently relies on dishonesty in order to gain converts then relies on dishonesty in order to retain converts. Especially when the same group publishes its perspective that lying is appropriate for certain "ends" to be achieved.

    An outstanding example of their duplicitous nature is available in the form of their judicial policy. There is only one possible reason to forbid an accused wrongdoer from choosing to record their proceedings. If there is no actual record that can be referred to as a witness, the judges can later lie about what occurred if that is deemed necessary.

    Why do you think courts have a court recorder whose job it is to record the proceedings? Do you think the recorder is present to embarrass the wrongdoer, or to provide a RECORD of what actually transpired for later reference? Even the Pharisees conducted court openly so that all could witness the proceedings. And Paul stated that this should be done publicly, as a warning.

    But the organization you are a part of lyingly says that recording of judicial proceedings is forbidden in order to protect the accused—whether or not the accused wants to record the proceedings. In my case, I would have gone through the JC process if I could have recorded it. I know for certain who would have been embarrassed by the proceedings.

    If you have as high a standard of honesty as you claim and you are as sensitized by dishonesty just as strongly as you claim, I invite you to account for the organization's gross abuses against the principles you hold so dear (Malawi/Mexico, lying about what the Bible Students were teaching prior to and after 1914 about 1914, lying about the context of the declaration that "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", lying about the intent of their current policies, lying about abstaining from blood while accepting all blood fractions—which fractions equal 100% of whole blood, etc.).

    How can you turn a blind eye to their blatant, published rejection of decency on this point when they claim to be mature teachers directed by holy spirit, but be willing to pillory a 17-year-old man—who doesn't claim to be anything more than a 17-year-old man—for stealing a book that belies their claims of spirit direction and demonstrates that they are nothing more than a human organization following the edicts of human decision makers?

    I am very curious to read your response.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • Stephanus
    Stephanus
    Excuse me. I started a new thread rather than be accused of "hijacking" someone else's.

    Nope. You're just a troll with an inflated sense of self-importance.

    Have a nice day!

  • crazyblondeb
    crazyblondeb


    Beep,beep

    I was molested my my stepdad, who was a ministerial servant. I acted out and was in alot of elder's meetings. I was the one always found at fault. They ignored what was going on with me. They (the elders) protected him at all costs. They also pointed blame at my mother. She was so clinically depressed she couldn't hardly function. When I tried to talk to social services, my parents found out about the appointment and it was cancelled. It turned out because a witness worked there. So she told my parents. The only way the abuse stopped was for me to run away to my biological father's in another state.

    The elders covered for him for years. Do you know how different my life might have been had someone who was an adult taken some kind of action and tried to think of the child who was a victim??!!

    I've seen cover-up first hand.

    shelley

    PS. What dave said!!!!

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Shelley, with all of the stories like yours on this board, I'd be shocked if Beep believed you, after all you're a lying apostate. Right? *rolling eyes*
    Beep, the immorality of "stealing" a book that is used to cover up the truth about the bowels of the Organization pales in comparison to the Intellectual Dishonesty you display to all of us here.

  • Confession
    Confession
    If you have as high a standard of honesty as you claim and you are as sensitized by dishonesty just as strongly as you claim, I invite you to account for the organization's gross abuses against the principles you hold so dear...

    Well put, Auld Soul.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    I wonder where he went? Maybe he will be back today.

  • Confession
    Confession

    Beep Beep? Still there? Any replies?

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Ditto to the comment's that the poster is showing classical black-white thinking;

    About stealing, maybe I'm a victim of my upbringing

    You got that right.

    but I do not believe it is acceptable to steal even to feed your family. There are other, legal ways to do so. I don't accept that there is no other way.

    Outside of blinkered thinking one can easily see some people do encounter situations where there only way to feed their family is theft, even if you are in a place where this is not a likely eventuality due to the existence of various charities et.al. Other people aren't so lucky, but you obviously are not thinking about other people.

    I believe that any injustice can be corrected without resorting to theft, lying or any other form of dishonesty.

    In addition to this showing your naivety, legal fact shows that you are wrong. Sometime an organisation or person will be engaged in illegal activity or the support and/or solicitation of illegal activity, or otherwise engaged in activity which will violate the rights of others. To technically violate law or positions of trust in order to disclose such actions is RIGHT, and in

    what's to stop you from stealing when you will profit from it? Or lie when it serves your interests?

    Distortion of the case at hand. It has NOTHING to do with personal interests, but is a matter where the public have a right to know.

    Of course, if the Borg practised judicial control as per the Bible (in public 'by the gates of the city'), then 'unauthorised' disclosure would not be necessary. It is the secrecy (which is Biblically unsupportable) which makes it necessary.

    When do you stop defending the indefensible?

  • Beep,Beep
    Beep,Beep

    ""But the organization you are a part of lyingly says that recording of judicial proceedings is forbidden in order to protect the accused—whether or not the accused wants to record the proceedings. In my case, I would have gone through the JC process if I could have recorded it. I know for certain who would have been embarrassed by the proceedings""

    What organization? I'm a member of AAA, Sam's Club, the local library among others. Which of these bothers you so?

    Oh wait I see, you somehow connect me to the WTS because I have seen another side of the issue. That's YOUR problem not mine.

    I'm under no obligation to defend a position I do not, repeat DO NOT hold.

    I'm sorry if this somehow confuses you.

    ""This is not to say that I applaud such "end justifies the means" thinking, I just find it particularly sharp to the palate when such an objection comes from a member of a group that frequently relies on dishonesty in order to gain converts then relies on dishonesty in order to retain converts. Especially when the same group publishes its perspective that lying is appropriate for certain "ends" to be achieved.""

    Once again you have placed me in a group that I am not a member.

  • Beep,Beep
    Beep,Beep

    ""I wonder where he went? Maybe he will be back today."" Sorry, I had a very busy week if it's really that important to you.

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