Confession me reply to your message RE Richie

by Beep,Beep 84 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  willyloman

  Why does this statement seem wrong? A member of the HLC, runs a "bloodless surgery" unit? As far as I can determine ALL members of the HLC are witnesses. Therefore this statement reeks as being untrue.I see no reason to accept anything this person says.

  Beepster: No, it's true. Dub elders from the local HLC are prime candidates for these hospital jobs at any medical center that opens up a "bloodless" (sometimes called "transfusion free") center. The reason is that the hospital administrators rely heavily on the HLC and the Society to help them shape the program, since the prime target for potential customers is the "JW Community," as the docs call it. When the HLC elder assigned to work with the hospital turns out to be knowledgeable and helpful, it is not unusual to offer him the job as supervisor/coordinator/director/whatever of the program.

  Perhaps you understood me to suggest the guys running these programs are still members of the HLC, in which case, no, of course not, they have to give up that position to take the secular job. But it's true that dub elders are running some of these programs all around the country, and most of them got the job because of their HLC connections.

  Oh, and here's something else you didn't know: The Society allows these men to pioneer by counting their hours (some of them, anyway) on the job!

  You may "see no reason to accept anything this person says" but I guarantee you that a couple of years ago, if I had visited your congregation, you'd have hung on my every word.
• 

  Beep,Beep

  AuldSoul

  "Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants."

  I don't see this as a lie. Maybe you should check with your local rabbi and see what they say and teach here. Moses was not a mediator for anyone but the nation of Isreal, not even the vast mixed company that went with the Isrealites. He most certainly was not a mediator for the nations that inhabited the promised land. Also Jewish proselytes CEASED to be from that nations, they became part of Isreal. At least that's the opinion of one local rabbi.

  ""You posted the very Scripture that cinches my point. Who is the congregation, Beep,Beep, if not the people? Under the Jewish system, this referred to the court at the city gates. It was public, so yes...if he does not listen a first time, and he does not listen a second time, air it publicly. That is what the NT says to do.

  Notice, the word "you" is lowercase...it was an individually decided matter, not an announced edict enforcible by similar expulsion, whether to treat someone as a man of the nations and a tax collector.""

  And yet what does 1st Corithians 5:9-13 say. I'll present text from a couple of versions.

  (YLT)

  1Co 5:9

  I did write to you in the epistle, not to keep company with whoremongers--

  1Co 5:10

  and not certainly with the whoremongers of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, seeing ye ought then to go forth out of the world--

  1Co 5:11

  and now, I did write to you not to keep company with him , if any one, being named a brother, may be a whoremonger, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--with such a one not even to eat together;

  1Co 5:12

  for what have I also those without to judge? those within do ye not judge?

  1Co 5:13

  and those without God doth judge; and put ye away the evil from among yourselves.

  (KJV)

  1Co 5:9

  I wrote 1125 unto you 5213 in 1722 an epistle 1992 not 3361 to company with 4874 fornicators: 4205

  1Co 5:10

  Yet 2532 not 3756 altogether 3843 the 3588 fornicators 4205 of this 5127 world, 2889 or 2228 with the 3588 covetous, 4123 or 2228 extortioners, 727 or 2228 with idolaters; 1496 for 1893 then 686 must ye needs 3784 go 1831 out of 1537 the 3588 world. 2889

  1Co 5:11

  But 1161 now 3570 I have written 1125 unto you 5213 not 3361 to keep company, 4874 if 1437 any man 5100 that is called 3687 a brother 80 be a fornicator, 4205 or 2228 covetous, 4123 or 2228 an idolater, 1496 or 2228 a railer, 3060 or 2228 a drunkard, 3183 or 2228 an extortioner; 727 with such a one 5108 no not 3366 to eat. 4906

  1Co 5:12

  For 1063 what have I to do 5101, 3427 to judge 2919 them also that are without? 1854, 2532 do not 3780 ye 5210 judge 2919 them that are within? 2080

  1Co 5:13

  But 1161 them that are without 1854 God 2316 judgeth. 2919 Therefore 2532 put away 1808 from 1537 among yourselves 5216, 848 that wicked person. 4190

  (ASV)

  Co 5:9

  I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators;

  1Co 5:10

  not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world:

  1Co 5:11

  but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat.

  1Co 5:12

  For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?

  1Co 5:13

  But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

  ""9

  In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? "Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves." ""

  ""Notice, the word "you" is lowercase...it was an individually decided matter, not an announced edict enforcible by similar expulsion, whether to treat someone as a man of the nations and a tax collector.""

  I disagree. If, as you say the congregation says to treat this person so, where does it become a personal decision? If you are part of the congregation don't you need to support that decision?

  "" know you didn't intend to twist Scripture. You were taught to understand that Scripture a certain way and have probably never looked at it in its historical context before. What did Jesus' listeners understand him to mean? I could care less what a bunch of boorish corporate heads in the 1930s tried to twist it into.""

  Except I did not twist the scripture but considered it with other verses that demonstrate to me that you are wrong.

  I'll make my reply concerning Mexico in a little while, hopefully later today, but it may not be until tomorrow.
• 

  Beep,Beep

  willyloman,

  ""You may "see no reason to accept anything this person says" but I guarantee you that a ;couple of years ago, if I had visited your congregation, you'd have hung on my every word.""

  I'm sorry but I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was refering to the "highly influential HLC member", not you.

  Sorry if you took this the wrong way.
• 

  Beep,Beep

  ""This only demonstrates your chasmal ignorance of the rampant corruption that still permeates the Mexican
  government and authority structures down to this very day. The situation was far worse in years past. Study
  that country's history, my friend, you don't know how bad it was""

  I fully understand that from the outside the Mexican government certainly looked corrupt. But then I have
  friends that live in Europe that have a hard time understanding this country's political situation. Political
  action commitees, lobbyists, special interest groups campaign contributions and the like confuse them.They
  consider it corruption. However the few people, and I admit it is only a few, that I know from Mexico seem to
  view the "corruption" as business as usual. So if that was a normal practice then how is it "corruption"?

  http://www.1mbupload.com/uploads/d0c5a2afd9.jpg

  http://server5.pictiger.com/img/72418/picture-hosting/coc-10001.php

  This link I find very interesting in that it puts responsiblity for using this option right where it belongs, squarely on the person who takes this route.

  http://server5.pictiger.com/img/72924/picture-hosting/coc-20001.php

  http://www.1mbupload.com/uploads/60e345f10a.jpg

  http://www.1mbupload.com/uploads/df7ff74fe2.jpg

  This one someone has taken the time to make it more readable.

  After reviewing these links I fail to see that connection with Malawi. There is a vast difference between this card, and thwe one in Malawi. The Malawi card identifies the holder as a SUPPORTER of the government of Malawi and a SUPPORTER of the president personally.

  I see a VAST difference.
• 

  KW13

  So if that was a normal practice then how is it "corruption"?

  Because the witnesses claim to be no part of this world and basically the Watchtower Society say they consult a higher source, that being God. A God that doesn't see people split by country, race or whatever.