More Bethelite Table Crumbs Please!

by MadApostate 86 Replies latest jw friends

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  MadApostate

  In a controversial post in a separate thread, JanH makes an extremely good observation that a certain former GB member will likely carry many, many WTS "top secrets" to his grave, for whatever reasons he does not wish to divulge such.

  Then, on this DB, former Bethelites constantly exchange posts where their word choice is "cloaked" so that many of us who were not insiders are left guessing at meaning, people, etc. Obviously, even individual members of this fraternity have unique experiences and insights. If such info is not disseminated, it is lost if that person dies naturally or in an accident.

  Would you folks please post more elaborately so that the rest of us can benefit from your knowledge and experience.

  The statement that motivated this post made a silent reference to the author of the Happiness book. The authorship of recent WTS publications would be a nice start.

  Could former Bethelites please post a listing of such?
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  Amazing

  Hi Mad: Perhaps the former GB member you have in mind if Ray Franz. He is the only one I klnow of that has provided any information. I think his two books, Crisis of Conscience and in Search of Christian Freedom say about all there is to say that is truly important and useful. Also, you can write to Ray Franz at Commentary Press. He will say what he feels is best.

  I have no doubt that there is additional 'juicy' tid-bits, but they really do not add to anything. Ray, being an honorable person, likely does not want to engage in gossip, or tell about negative things that have no real useful purpose other than to demean.

  Amazing
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  MadApostate

  Amazing:

  "...being an honorable person, likely does not want to engage in gossip, or tell about negative things that have no real useful purpose other than to demean."

  That must mean that the majority of the folks participating on this DB, including myself, are DISHONORABLE, since this DB THRIVES on GOSSIP intended to demean the WTS and JWs.
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  outcast

  MadApostate,

  What is your problem? besides being mad?
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  Amazing

  Hi Mad: You know, I sometimes really get concerned at how things said get all twisted from the original intent. I never said, or implied anything of the kind. I am speaking from personal experience with several former Bethelites and Ray Franz. I base this on things they have written in book form, private correspondence, and face-to-face discussion. They are just cautious in what they say, and for the purposes mentioned. It is thier own choice as to what they feel is useful or not useful. Also, they may not want somethings coming back on them, especially if certain information was given in confidence by a close friend at Bethel.

  Again, please do not presume and assume motives or implication and read into the points things that are neither said nor intended.

  Personally, I would love to have much more, and when I have had personal visits with some of the above folks, they have revealed more. I posted a couple of comments by a former Bethelite on JWD when I returned from BRCI last July. For example: He spoke of how one GB member believes that the organization has 'it' all wrong, and needs to scrap their entire doctrinal system and start over at Genesis 1:1 and completely revise what they publish.

  That is useful and informative to me and many others. But, some former Bethelites may not feel so free to share such. This does not imply that because they choose not to share something out of a sense of honor, confidence, or feeling it is useless gossip that somehow the rest of us are gossipers, and lacking honor. It is simply that their own sense of honor precludes them from divulging somethings that they alone feel is not necessary to discuss.

  Maturity, honor, and concern for those who have left Bethel service precludes us from taking it the wrong way, and show us to be honorable as well. - Amazing
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  Maximus

  Have you any idea what kind of courage it took for Barbara to make her post?

  You've managed to trivialize it very quickly by your comments on crumbs and gossip, not to mention what borders on demands, on pain of questioning motive and tarring someone who is responsible for his/her own choices.

  Thanks for your comments, Amazing; they are right on target.

  Maximus
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  MadApostate

  Amazing:

  AND, my point is that FACTS ARE FACTS and TRUTH IS TRUTH, and if those who are the Sole Source of such kick the bucket without sharing the unique info they possess, then such is lost for eternity.

  "Honor" certainly doesn't stand in the way of "gossiping" about some facts/truth, then why should it stand in the way of COMPLETE FACTS/TRUTH.

  My opinion is that as much info as possible should be disseminated, so long as it is a confirmed fact/truth.

  I can think of a whole host of reasons, other than "honor", why one clique of folks wish to restrict facts/info fro the general populace, POWER and CONTROL not being the least of such.

  Of course, your being an "insider" of the "power clique", I could not expect you to understand the perspective of those of us who must wait patiently for crumbs of "new light" from the xjw GB.
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  MadApostate

  FUCK YOU MAX!!!

  Barbara Anderson never entered my mind when I put together this thread.

  Why don't you reread my original post. What set me off was some ex-bethelite's post which referred to the author of "Happiness", without identifying for us peasants who that author was.

  Your "D.O. Attitude" is transparent. You can't even stand to see your "group" criticized, much less yourself!
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  Amazing

  Hi Mad: I agree, some people, likely the majority, take certain information with them to the grave. That is their right and private decision. I will take some things to my own grave.

  Former Bethelites are just like anyone else, and neither do they divulge nor withhold information anymore than anyone else. Yes, they happened to be in a position where they learned things about the organization that the rest of us have not, nor may ever learn.

  I am sure that some Bethelite at least once caught a GB mamber masturbating, or swearing, or drunk. We already know that some were Gay, or had other serious problems. But, each person privy to such information makes their own choice about what they wish to tell.

  The really important and useful information, such as Ray Franz' books are there, and have proved to help many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands to escape the spiritual gravity zone of the Watch Tower religion. I cannot ask for more, but if by chance some more juicy stuff comes along, that will be fine. But I think to demand it and expect it is not necessarily fair or realistic. - Amazing

  PS: Please don't put down my friend Maximus. He is a great person, and he makes excellent posts, and really does not deserve being slammed down that way. Thanks. - Amazing
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  Seeker

  Oh calm down, Mad! Some of us know things from our days inside the organization, or at Bethel, or from inside contacts, or whatever. Some of what I know has been told me in confidence. If I were to spill the beans here prematurely, I would betray those who made the request. It would have a chilling effect on further dissemination of information down the road.

  Be patient. All will come out in due time. If stuff is released prematurely, it could cause problems for individuals, or for the cause. One thing you do not want is to tip off Legal to all the stuff we know. If that means you have to exercise a little patience, well, guess what? I do too. I haven't been told the whole story, and I'll gladly wait to hear it.

  As for hearing every little crumb of gossip, there is already enough information out to condemn the WTS many times over. If a person hasn't been convinced by all this, they probably won't be convinced no matter what you offer them.