A long overdue statement (page 5)

XBEHERE

TSOF I completely, 100% understand what you are going thru since I am in the exact same position as you are. This is a valid point though:

Sorry, but you are wasting your time. Eventually you will be forced to teach something you know to be wrong. You can't pick and choose all your talks.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to avoid certain subjects without being labeled as having a bad attitude or suspicously by the PO in particular since he does assign Service Meeting parts. I have to admit that I have gone against my conscience and went up on the stage to teach lies and I hate myself for doing it. Like LT said, this is going to grind us down eventually. What then?

freedomlover

tsof -

very brave post and a lot of interest to me.

My father is in the same position as you are. He is struggling to stay in because he feels he can do good if he stays. I really do struggle with this. I see his and my stepmoms health going down hill and he has aged overnight from all the stress he carries. My selfishness wants him to just quit and get on with his life. I think in some ways this would validate my decision to leave, but then I have to remember that we all go through this battle as individuals. It's a personal journey for each of us. I applaud your efforts, but like I told my dad you have to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice yourself and your loved ones in the name of reform. Good luck and keep us up to date. I hope one day your family can understand the great sacrifices you've made.

-freedomlover

truthsetsonefree

One of my dodges is that I do other things in the congregation that are not teaching related. Thus I get almost no service meeting parts. When I do they tend to be local needs and I set the topic.

metatron

Sometimes I pass by public markers that commemorate the sacrifices of men who fell in battle. I'm sure many of them sustained

themselves with the thought that they were doing something important for their country and history, while they suffered amidst dirt

and pain. Meanwhile, we drive by their monuments, oblivious to whoever they were and whatever they did, with car radios playing

and with hot coffee in our cupholders.

I am resolved not to waste the precious currency of my life fighting to reform what is likely to be unreformable.

I can do more good as an example of one who simply 'gave up' - and has not been hit by a lightning bolt in doing so. I can truthfully

say that almost every aspect of my life is better since I quit as an elder, claimed depression and became inactive.

metatron

dozy

I personally feel your situation is untenable.

There are many elders (including me) who have certain relatively minor issues with the truth but still accept the core values and teachings. Personally I agree with the blood doctrine - even if I didn't , I wouldn't donate. If you are regularly donating blood , then that is deliberately violating one of the foundation teachings of Jehovah's witnesses. The very act is a pre-meditated "apostasy" as defined.

sir82

The very act is a pre-meditated "apostasy" as defined.

Wouldn't deliberately posting on a board frequented by disfellowshipped JWs, and sharing in "spiritual discussions" with them, also qualify as the above?

truthsetsonefree

And sir82's comment explains why I have gone all the way. I will follow my conscience. now understand, I won't announce to the congregation to donate blood. But I won't tell them not to. And if someone did I would either look the other way or not serve on the case unless I knew for certain I could help them by serving. The Society's rules for me are much like the rules at the company I work for. I don't always agree with them. But if I can't change it I may just distance myself from it. Now if I had been in Ray franz's position I probably would have done what he did since now I would be setting policy, even if only as part of a body. But eders have surprisingly little power. You get some as a PO or chairman of something. Other than that you are really just a peon.

dozy

"Wouldn't deliberately posting on a board frequented by disfellowshipped JWs, and sharing in "spiritual discussions" with them, also qualify as the above?"

I take the point , but I feel that although the WTS strongly advises against participating in "apostate" websites , it isn't a disfellowshipping offence per se. In addition , many posters here are active witnesses , interested persons or are "unbelievers" married to JWs - so it isn't an "apostate board" as such. I agree that it is inadvisable - I have my own motives for participating.

To donate blood is a voluntary act - it is a degree further than perhaps taking a transfusion in a potentially life-threatening situation or under pressure from doctors , family or friends. I couldn't , in all conscience , remain "in the truth" in those circumstances.

diamondblue1974

TSOF...I agree with Jgnat in that we all must take our own individual stand, I admire your determination (however misguided) and its clear there is more Christian spirit in you than there is in a lot of the BOE.

Good work!

Db74

sir82

participating in "apostate" websites , it isn't a disfellowshipping offence per se.

I don't have my "Flock" book handy, but as I recall, deliberately associating with disfellowshipped persons is a judicial matter. At the very least, you would be "strongly counseled", and if you ignored the counsel, you'd be on trial for "loose conduct".

In addition , many posters here are active witnesses , interested persons or are "unbelievers" married to JWs - so it isn't an "apostate board" as such.

I see. So, for example, it would be perfectly acceptable to attend a wedding reception where d-f'ed persons were in attendance, since there would also be "active witnesses, interested persons, and unbelievers" there? What was that scripture about lumps & leaven?

To donate blood is a voluntary act

...as is posting to a board where disfellowshipped / apostate persons comprise the majority of the posters.

I'm not really trying to "get" you, I'm just saying...your clothes are muddy, and insisting that they are clean does not make them so.

A long overdue statement

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