Why can't you just move on?

by atypical 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • outoftheorg

    From what I have read on this forum and seen and experienced in my own life.

    Quite often there are other problems either small or large and the jw wife or husband disagreeing on religious issues just exacerbates the relationships problems and is used as the final reasons for anger or divorcing.

    I think that if person can identify these other issues and heal them, then show genuine affection and love for the other, with gifts and kindness and true love. Sort of the way they were treated when you courted them. That there is a higher possibility of success.

    If we can convince them that they are truly loved and that they have meaning for us and that they are important in our life by showing love and surprise dates and time alone, always avoiding any conversation about the wbts until all other issues are healed may work.

    It is difficult to get angry with some one we know truly loves us. Accept that this is going to be a long long process and needs effort.

    Always make it known that you love and care for and will never leave your children or your mate.


  • MsMcDucket

    I found this on the web, and I thought that it might be of some help, so here it is:

    Mastering Communication

    Every marriage has some form of communication: discussing the logistics of daily life, talking about the children or even arguments. Just because you are talking, doesn't mean you are effectively communicating. To truly master the art of communication, it is necessary to understand the different components of exchanges between two individuals. The information below is your personal course, for marriage help on marriage and communication 101.

    • Know the Factors Involved:
      It is a common mistake to think that communication between you and your partner is only about the two of you. There are four major factors that can hinder effective communication:

      1. Norms and Attitudes:
      As human beings, we take experiences and interactions of our past and incorporate then into our thought process. If your partner grew up in a home where money issues were never discussed, they may have a preexisting sensitivity to financial topics. If your partner was scolded excessively as a child, they may react strongly to the simplest of criticisms. These are examples of attitudes or norms that can interfere with your communication. It is important, as a couple, to try and understand your partner and any barriers that may exist so you can more effectively overcome these obstacles and get to the heart of the matter you are discussing.

      2. External Noise:
      Your environment can have a major influence on communication. If there is excess noise or distraction, it may be impossible to effectively discuss important matters. It is critical to choose the right time and right place for detailed discussions about your partnership.

      3. Internal Noise
      It probably isn't the best time to bring up buying a new car or replacing an appliance when your spouse has just walked in the door from a terrible day at work. Likewise, it is probably best to delay a conversation about intimacy when your partner has just had a fight with a friend or lost a love one. Realize that our state of mind is often driven by the emotional or physical strain we are feeling at the moment. Be sensitive to these "internal" distractions and communicate accordingly.

      4. Timing
      A conversation can't happen in the 10 minutes you have between finishing your breakfast and running off to work. Be sure to leave yourselves amble time to hear each other's perspectives and come up with some options.

    • Be Prepared
      In a partnership there is day-to-day communication that occurs off the cuff. Who will drop off the dry-cleaning? What do you want for dinner? What time will you be home? This is the simplest form of communication that exists in every marriage.

      It is also critical to communicate in greater length about your partnership. If you need to bring up a sensitive issue or make decisions together, prepare yourself before entering into that conversation. Too often, for example, we'll attach very abstract emotional issues to more tangible conversations around finances. One partner might complain that the other works too much and is neglecting chores when, in reality, they feel neglected themselves. Take private time to think about what you want to communicate and make notes if necessary. The clearer you are about your wants, needs and issues, the more likely your partner is to understand them.

    • Listen Like A Mirror
      It's a phrase normally associated with psychologists -- "what I hear you saying is..." -- but the premise is universal. Don't be afraid to reiterate your understanding of your partner's comments in a conversation. This helps clarify their intentions as much as your understanding of the communication. This is particularly important if a high-level of emotion is involved in the discussion. Often you can make an irrational conversation more rational simply by assuring your partner you are listening and helping them clearly articulate their messages.
    • Pay Attention to the Nonverbal Communication
      Research says that the majority of what we communicate isn't actually said through words. Facial expressions, vocal tone, body posture and other nonverbal elements can be a big part of communication. If you say you aren't mad at something with clinched teeth -- the message will probably not be believed. It is very important not to let the non-verbal reactions to another situation, like a bad day at work or a problem with the children, carry over into a discussion about your partnership.
    • Focus Communication on Action
      Many couples feel that they have the same arguments all the time. If your communication is seeming cyclical, it is either because you are not translating those discussions into action or the problem isn't one that can be solved. Make an effort to leave every discussion about your partnership with a clear set of "action items."

    Having just highlighted the "big picture" essentials on mastering communication, we've compiled a list of questions to get you and your spouse started on enhancing your marriage and communication. The questions below have been adapted from a retreat organization- Retrouvaille- to give you some leads on how to start talking. Retrouvaille, which means "renewal" in French, encourages participants to answer "in loving detail." Some people may find it helpful to write down their answers and then discuss. Others find it easier to confide when they awake in the middle of the night. Take your time. Nobody is scoring the responses.

    Begin with a little fantasy like "how would we feel about winning the lottery?" That's a lot less threatening than "How do I feel about the way you handle money?" Most of the questions have something to do with finances, because money triggers most marital misunderstandings and often symbolizes deeper concerns like trust, love and security.

    1. If we had twice the income, would we be any happier?
    2. How do I feel about how we handle money, individually and as a couple?
    3. How important are possessions in my life, your life, our life?
    4. How does each of us feel about how we balance the checkbook?
    5. Are finances getting in the way of our intimacy?
    6. What do we like best about ourselves and each other in how we handle money? Least?
    7. How does each of us feel about letting somebody outside the family borrow the car?
    8. How does each of us define "financial security" and how have our definitions changed over time?
    9. How does each of us feel when we want something we can't afford?
    10. What's the hardest thing to talk to each other about and why?
    11. When was the last time we complimented each other and about what?
    12. What steps can we take to talk and listen to each other more?


    Actions During Marriage

    How To Build an Equal Marriage
    Organize Information About Your Partnership
    How (and why) to Bring Up a Postnup
    Creating A Postnuptial Agreement
    Money and Marriage
    Common Law Marriage Myths

    Partnership Tips From The Pros
    Tips for Talking
    Mastering Communication
    Revitalize Your Marriage
    Celebrating Special Moments
    Renewing Your Vows

    Avoid the Marriage Pitfalls
    Preventing Marriage Problems
    Beware Of These Warning Signs
  • Tigerman
  • Dr. Shaz
    Dr. Shaz

    atypical What questions of yours do they refuse to answer?

  • atypical
  • JAVA

    When JWs want to know "why can't you just move on" they're hiding the real issue at hand, and that is "why do you question my religion?" They spend 10 or more hours a month asking others to question their religion, but can't allow others to question them.

    It's much easier to "move on" when exiting most religious communities, but cults like JWs hold family and life-time friends hostage, thus the "moving on" thing is very difficult. An honest look into the fear and control of the group answers the question about "moving on," but of course JWs can't allow themselves to go there. It is far to easy to blame the victims of the Watchtower (i.e., "why can't you just move on?") than to honestly answer questions about their religion of fear and control.

  • moshe

    I tried marital counseling - My wife's lawyer( a woman) talked my wife into it. So she postponed her divorce for a few months and let me back home , as the children did miss their father a lot. The lawyer probably thought I had the real "issues" problem in the marriage. Anyway, I was all for it , as we had young children and I didn't want our family broken up and I still loved my JW wife at that point. Session #1- we talked to the counselor and she gave us each a "sentence completion" assignment. Session #2- my wife only did about 10% of her assignment. She told the counselor, that she didn't like the assignment. The counselor started asking more questions about her treatment of me and how she felt about me leaving the JW religion. My wife did not think it fair to just abruptly decide to quit our religion and expect her to accept it. By the end of the sesion she was very defensive and was anxious to leave. Session #3- I went by myself- my wife refused to go to any more marriage counseling. I continued to go and talk to the counselor. She was very interested in the JW realted problems. She helped me to see that I could do nothing to change my wife, I could only change myself and learn to live within her WT dictated rules and boundaries or accept a divorce. Marriage counsling might work for you ,who knows. Has anyone else had success with marriage counseling? good luck, Moshe

  • atypical

    I am very sorry for all of you who have had to deal with marital problems over this issue. To those still dealing with it, I wish you the best of luck. To those of you who have moved on, carpe diem, my friends.

    Dr. Shaz, I am happy to answer your question. Although I could go on for an hour, I will just give you a select few.

    Why does the organization claim to have no clergy/laity class system?

    Why does the organization claim that they don't ask for money?

    Why does the organization rate people based on recorded hours and meeting attendance?

    Why are the most important standards of merit within the watchtower organization all based on rituals that were invented by the watchtower, not on standards held out in the bible? i.e. - ministry school, field service hours, no beards, meeting attendance, literature placements, etc.Those things are essential to being successful in the watchtower organization. Here are some things that are not:

    Kindness, Treats family well, does not slander, does not lie, is not ambitious for personal gain, does not judge others, motivated by sound principles not popularity, etc.

    One could raise to any position in the watchtower organization without having a single thing from my second list. However, one could never rise to any position in the organization without ALL of the things on my first list.

    How say you?

    I would be happy to elaborate on any of my questions.

  • jwfacts

    I don't have good suggestions, but just want to say that I feel for you as I am in a similar situation, and can not help but get angry every time the topic is raised. I am trying to just not raise it anymore, as it does no good. The only thing is that everytime I am in contact with a JW I feel I have to bring it up, even though I know it will do no good. I guess in time as your life is filled with other things these feelings die down.

  • HiddenQuestioner
    "When I bring anything negative up, I can see her face get steely and determined. She gives one word generic answers, and then remains silent. I realized that instead of thinking about what I am saying, she is viewing my comments as opposition"

    Yes, I too can relate to this very well and hense my strategy has been to.........

    "try not to say anything and keep my opinions to myself also, but how do you do that and not let them take the silence as agreeable acknowledgement."

    Yes, this in tough and I am not sure how much longer I can keep quite, but I need to in order to keep the peace. Meanwhile, I just continue to go through the JW motions as.......

    "You can't just leave the WTS. Because I'm fading, I feel bound by rules that I don't believe in; I'm unable to ask the questions I want to ask and read the things I want to read."
    Everytime my wife says anything scriptural around me and gets a different answer than she's looking for she gets all upset........I also at the same time cant give in to her and live a lie. Its really a hard life to live.

    Right now I am living a lie and I am fading fast, but my "dedicated" JW wife doesn't know this yet. So I, along with all of you, live in this constaint pain of emotions. For me I'm in but I'm out all at the same time. as I only attend meetings to get some level of spirituality and to please her. Thus, I am now starting to agree with the following viewpoint......

    It is my opinion that at some point you will slip up and say something that will put the "apostate" label on you. Once that happens it's over- your wife will stop the dialogue. It's sad, but we are just outside observers in this marital death spiral- we don't see many JW spouses who are able to stay married to a spouse who openly leaves the org.

    Yes, it is just a matter of time before I "slip". Then what will happen I just don't know....

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