LT
I thank God for the people that love me enough to tell me the truth, even when at the time I didn't want to hear it.
Billyboy
You should thank God that LT thinks you "deserve to know the truth"!
D Dog
Wow LittleToe!
by IP_SEC 76 Replies latest jw friends
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Midget-Sasquatch
BillyBoy
Who was sharing information and who were/are trying to suppress it? LT or the WTS? Who were/are taking advantage of their status?
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TopHat
Little Toe....I was so touched by your talk that tears were streaming down my face toward the end.....You are a brave man LT.
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wombat
LittleToe...Yeah I listened to this a while back and it gave me goose bumps imagining the scene.
I think that I recall that you left out some pieces that you planned to say. One day you may feel like expanding on that.
Bloody good on you.
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Oroborus21
Billy,
I have to disagree with you for a couple of reasons (and i won't go off like perhaps some might on the issues of "trust" and betrayals of such and the Society, etc..)
First, if the meetings of the congregations are going to be truly meaningful and anything more than a ritual (call and respond or rote repetition of the Watchtower study-answers from the paragraph), then they must be a place where Witnesses may speak freely about their faith.
True, this doesn't mean that just anyone may come in an rant about their faith or even sincerely interject their own views or their own religion. And of course as a place of worship, there should always be a modicum of respect and dignity.
If you would care to examine the meetings of the Bible Students under Russell, what you might be surprised to learn is how very different the atmosphere was. These were meetings where the friends could each stand and give their own testimony. Portions of the meetng were devoted to that. The Zion's Watchtower was not considered as such, not like today, but instead was merely the print medium that served to unify the various groups and to bring together some cohesiveness of thought. So historically, the point is that the meetings of the congregation were meant to upbuild and encourage all and also allow persons to express their faith as they had made it their own.
Even today, that ideal is still held out as a facade by the Society. But that is all it is, because any expressions of personal faith which don't conform to the currently blessed theology are considered abnormal (and possibly worse.)
thus I say again, there is a problem with this and unless we are resigned to pemit only the rule of ritual, then we must permit freedom of expression, within reason, including allowing those who might have a different view or belief, if the house of god is to be one of genuine worship and fellowship.
Secondly, I would call attention to the content of the expression.
I must ask myself the question: Is the content of the expression truly wrong within this house of God?
In my opinion, unless what is expressed is truly contrary to God or offensive to him not just because I think so but because it truly is, then so long as it is sincere and personally felt, it cannot be wrong to permit it.
What LT expressed from the platform might be wrong in a theological way, but he sincerely believed it and I don't believe that, objectively, one could say that it was offensive to God or contrary to him.
And Finally, I think that the example of the two occassions of Jesus running the money-changers and profiteers out of the Temple as related in the bible provides an ample scriptural basis to assert, that when one truly believes that wrong-doing is occurring, even if it be in the House of God or the most holiest of places, that it is the duty of a Christian to take action or in the least his zeal is not wrong if he does act.
In my opinion, I would like to see more Bill Bowens storming out of the meeting, or more Little Toes speaking from the heart from the platform. I would like to see more of this, not when they are disassociating themselves, but more Witnesses need to speak up, yes and risk the consequences. They need to speak in their comments and from the platform.
The Revolution to come is one that is being and will be produced by both external and internal forces and it is time that the ones on the inside do their share. Momentum is growing and the Society cannot afford (financially or spiritually) to disfellowship every Witness who disagrees or seeks reform and recantation. All it takes is courage.
I find Little Toe's talk to be extremely courageous and a good example for others.
just my two cents,
Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
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valkyrie
Many thanks to IP_SEC for reviving this topic and introducing it to a fresh audience!
L.T.: I, today, listened to a KH-Public Discourse for the first time in many years -- yours. I was most affected by the humility and earnestness manifested in your soft-spoken demeanour and I found myself canted speaker-ward, to receive every phrase.
Although expressions of empathy and fellow-feeling teem in my head since reading your long-ago posted experiences, I refrain from expounding them now as they will be but words from a stranger: pleasant but not nurturing. I content myself by thanking you for your courage (before the congregation) and your candour (in this forum).
V.
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billyboy
Thanks for your balanced comments , Eduardo.
My personal view is that the witnesses come to the meetings to listen to the scriptures developed in harmony with the doctrines developed by Jehovahs’s witnesses. They don’t go to hear a speaker exploiting his position to give vent to his views and opinions which are in direct opposition to the views of his audience and which cause hurt and upset.
During Princess Diana’s funeral , her brother , Earl Spencer , took advantage of the opportunity to criticise the royal family. He knew that everybody was listening and no-one would dare intervene. Many may have agreed with his sentiments. Yet it wasn’t the time , place or forum to express his views.
LTs talk wasn’t courageous - it was rude , ill-considered and showed contempt for his audience.
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lonelysheep
I have JUST listened to it! (I had previously read the transcript)
I just did, too, after having read the transcript months ago.
and WOW......I am gobsmacked - I expected a Scottish accent!
So did I!
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LittleToe
Thanks guys. Even though it was over four years ago, I appreciate the comments. I lost everything I expected, that day, and some things that I hoped beyond hope that I wouldn't.
Billy:
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, however much misinformed.
You never did bother to either listen to the talk or read the manuscript, did you? I know that's the case because of the way you've responded. Your accusations are unfounded.
How well do you think you know me? What do you mean by "my church"? How did I "act"? How would a church react to hearing something like I said on that day?
You don't really know the answer to any of these questions, do you?
I suspect you've spent more time on this, after the fact, than the mere 20+ minutes it would have taken to actually listen to it. Try becoming informed first-hand, before launching your tirades - it leaves less egg on your face. As for the allusion to Robin Cook's funeral... you're not even on the same planet...
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Deputy Dog
billyboy
My personal view is that the witnesses come to the meetings to listen to the scriptures developed in harmony with the doctrines developed by Jehovahs’s witnesses.
That's funny! The witnesses that I talk to say they go for true Worship of God. Can't imagine that they expect to hear the truth?
They don’t go to hear a speaker exploiting his position to give vent to his views and opinions which are in direct opposition to the views of his audience and which cause hurt and upset.
Like you could know what the views of his audience were. Maybe there are some that are afraid to say the agree with LT.
LTs talk wasn’t courageous - it was rude , ill-considered and showed contempt for his audience.
The only contempt for his audience was from the org (which knows it's lying to the people). The leadership does not think the rank and file "deserve to know the truth".
D Dog