Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

• 

  wednesday

  A civilized , morally responsible country would provide for those who are unable to care for themselves. We are not animals, we should not not leave our old , sick , mentally disabled to fend for themselves or die. Everyone who is physically /mentally able should work . There should be some sort of universal type healthcare to provide basic servies and treatment for acute and chronic illness . This could be accomplished with the current medicaid system if the qualifying income level was raised. More people would have acess to basic healthcare. It would need overhaul, but it could be made to work. It would be a lifesaver for those unable to afford insurance at their job.. traditional insurance companies and such would still be available for those who could afford it. So some form of healthcare would be available to all.

  I don't think we can fix the current system where the insurance/pharmaceutical companies are in charge. Some doctors are opting out of the system b/c the insurance companies that contract with them pay them so little they can barely keep their offices open. Also the paperwork involved in enormous. Some doctors are tired of being told how to practice medicine by the insurance co. A doc I go to has done this and it has severly limited my ability to see him..So who really suffers? me the patient...

  Your doctor has to be put back in charge of your healthcare, not some pencil pusher at an insurance company.. There does need to be someone watching over the medical doctor, so the system is not abused It should be a third party, one who is not paying the bill and has no financial motivation to color their decisions. This thrid party has to be qualifed to access medical situations..

  It is a common illusion that government assistance is easy to get, and lots of people abuse it. I'm sure there are some frauds, but for every one fraud there are dozens of very ill/poor people who are unable to get help b/c the application processis is complicated and long. Many people give up. Some just die, end up homeless, or if lucky , live with relatives.

  America tries to ignore the poor among us. (look at how shocked people were at the poverty in New Orleans) I see TV programs talking about starving children in third world countries. I wish somone would do a "save the children of the usa" fund raiser. Someone needs to show it , as ugly as it is, and show what life is like for those who are poor. in america..

  weds
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  If you want to know why health care costs, prescription costs and insurance premiums have gone out of this universe, read this book. Health care has become big business and it feeds off all of us> Be sure to scroll down and read all of the reviews. I heard about this book on NPR when the authors were interviewed about it:
• 

  adrift

  <div>There are so many problems in this country that intertwine to cause this crisis that they are almost impossible to disentangle. Isn't that why Hillary didn't fix this for us a few years back?
  
  
  There was a 20/20 program, 60 Minutes or something on this topic a few weeks back. One of the ideas from that show was that everyone should be required to buy health insurance. Everyone buys from the insurance company of their choise and everyone is covered. Much lower cost to all as the insured are not carrying the bills of the uninsured.
  
  Caps on medical malpractice lawsuits. The Drs. have to carry extremely expensive malpractice insurance which they in turn have to pass the cost of on to their patients. One Dr. I had quit delivering babies because he still had to continue carrying this insurance for the next 18 years in case of lawsuits. They also perform all these unnecessary tests to cover their butts.
  
  I started working full time 13 years ago so my family could have health insurance. It was free then. My employer paid the entire premium. It was that way for several years but the past five I have had to contribute. Each year I am astounded at how much it goes up. It goes up faster than my pay increase. I wonder how many years before I will have to take another job so we can also eat.
  
  I have a daughter who was diagnosed with scoliosis this past summer. She also has other medical problems. If I had to get other insurance now, there is no way anyone would insure her. Will I have to work at this same job the rest of my life so she will have insurance?
  
  Yeah, it definately is a crisis. You're just walking a tight rope hoping you don't fall off.
  
  Anyone have thoughts on HSAs. Just curious as I don't know much about them myself.
  
  </div>
• 

  Vivamus

  After having read this, I feel a bit ashamed about bashing at my own government for the new healthcare system. My monthly payments are doubled to cover medical care. Previously everyone below a certain income paid for mandatory insurance, approxamatly 50 euro's a month. Coverage is practically allround for that money. Those whose income was higher paid around 150 - 200 euro. The idea behind is that those who can afford to pay more ... pay more.

  The system is a basic insurance for everyone. Healthinsurance companys are *required* to accept everyone who should apply for the basic insurance. This one costs approx 87 euro's, depending on the healthinsurance company. In addition one can insure for dental care, for acupuncture and treatments like that. My policy includes those and I pay 118 euro per month.

  Additionaly, the government reimburses anyone a certain amount should their income not be enough to pay for all of this. Below an income of 19000 a year, you get monthly payments back from the government, ranging from 15 to 50 euro's a month.

  Now, we also have minimum wages which is 1260 bruto month. When taxes come off, one is left with about 900 euro's. Should one be in this position, the government pays too for healthcare, rent, childcare etc.

  There is a strong history of income equilising in this cuntry. The higher your income, the more taxes you pay. However, should I loose my job, I know I can till pay my rent, and insurance policies. I dont realy like seeing 40% of my income go to taxes, but I am very thankfull that should something happens, I will be taken care off.

  Conserning the question of healthcare being a right or privilidge ... I consider it a humane right.
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Yes of course it is a right. No one should ever be denied health care. EVER.

  Viv, The Netherlands don't sound as greedy as the USA, in general.
• 

  prophecor

  Yo, everybody gonna get sick someday / But nobody knows how they gonna pay / Health care, managed care, HMOs / Ain't gonna work, no sir, not those / 'Cause the thing that's the same in every one of these / Is these ***** there, the insurance companies!
  
  
  
  : Insurance! Insurance!
  
  
  
  : Yeah, yeah / You can call it single-payer or Canadian way / Only socialized medicine will ever save the day! Come on now, lemme hear that dirty word - SOCIALISM!

  Anyone familiar with the above line from the movie, Bulworth, and you'll here the voice of what can be the only future for health care for all people in this country, short of the New System getting here first. The Movie "Bulworth" touches on so many of the taboos that go unmentioned in Amerikkka, for fear of speaking in politically incorrect and pushes them right in our face, and makes us examine where the line truly is.

  National health care, as was mentioned by so many others is not for the likes of this society, as is it stands. We live in a capitalist country, run by corporate greed, funded by big business and corporate America, and they should just take the moniker from the movie by Curtis (Fifty Cents) Jackson, " Get Rich, or Die Trying. They play the same game, just by different rules.

  It is a sad thing in a civilised society, where the poor are regarded as less than worthy of basic common care of it's citizens. Don't they realise that a healthy slave, is a much more productive slave and can benefit the economy, merely because of the fact that he is in good health? Yes, slaves. All of us. White, Black, Latino or whoever. We're all in the service of someone or something, basically. Whether you work for Wal-Mart or Wall Street, we're all just cogs in the machine.

  Are we so further along in our economic reality that we can't even look at those who do have a system of national healthcare and ask of those who may have good working examples, what might we do to realistically try and turn things around for our country? What has worked for you, and why?

  A lot of us here in America are dying. Many of us are unaware of the illnesses that are running rampant in our souls because we don't have even the most basic of healthcare. We don't go to the doctors because as long as I ain't hurtin' on the inside, I ain't got nuthin' to worry about. And then oneday, all of a sudden,

  Heart Attack, Stroke, Annuerisms,

  But I was just talking to him yesterday, we were at the local pub just havin a coupla' cold ones.

  You never know Amerikkka. Your time is gonna' come one day. It may be you, or it may be your child, and it's one of the few things you can count on. Death, pain sickness and suffering, yes has always been, and unless we were all wrong about Paradise Postponed, it will always be. Don't ya' think there's a better way? Does it have to be, this greedy? Does it truly need to be this hard?
• 

  stillconcerned

  Fair-

  As a parting comment re 'lawsuit abuse'; tort reform passed in Texas, due to blitzing advertising paid for by the insurance industry, promising lower med malpractice premiums to docs and lesser med costs if tort reform passed..

  What actually happened?

  No lower med-mal rates to docs (in fact rates have risen almost 20%), and no impact on actual med costs. Just more $$ in the insurance co's pocket, and the little guy can't get legal representation even when something truly egregious happens. The insurance companies have placed a price per head on each dead body, which they can now undertake with impunity due to established caps, with no punitive damages available.

  When ins co's can quantify their risk with caps, they stop paying claims without much ramification. Most people will give up and walk away...

  I agree there has been abuse, but most of the high profile examples were reversed or remanded, with the initial verdict overturned. In general, the system, tho' faulty, works.

  Some will always cheat; that's humanity.

  Kimberlee D. Norris
• 

  LDH

  Rabbit,

  I'll ignore the personal attack and get right to the point. You state that as far as insurance goes you're a 'losing proposition.' MY POINT EXACTLY. You're not a 'risk' --you're a guaranteed loss. Insurance operates on principles of risk.

  No insurance company should be forced to provide you coverage. At least, not a for-profit company. This is not good business.

  Now I should say that although it may sound like I am on the side of big business, if you'll remember earlier in this thread I remarked that two of the top ten highest paid executives in Orange County CA are "Healthcare Executives". I believe competition and profit is a good thing, but in this case it's gone too far.

  You have to separate the two issues. Should private for-profit industry have to underwrite and accept higher than normal risk? NO. Should there be another avenue for the folks who don't have access to that private industry pool? YES.

  Adrift: Yes, you may have to continue to work for the insurance. That's the choice a lot of people have to make. At least you have a choice.

  HSA: good option if you meet for criteria. Good health now. Proper family demographics. "youngish side" ie, below 40. You have income and are able to budget.

  Basic idea: high deductible, only first-dollar covered services are for routine or preventative. The health plan is considered to be "HSA-compatible" if it meets certain criteria. Simultaneously you open a savings account (considered the HSA) and put money in there to draw on in the event you need it. The big difference is the money rolls over from year to year and continues to accumulate on a tax-preferred basis. You are not taxed on it (above the line) unless it is withdrawn for non-medical reasons. When you are 65 you can withdraw it for any purpose, and it's taxed on a lower basis.

  http://www.treasury.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/

  Keep in mind this is a financial and investing tool, so it's not a tool for a family of 6 with 4 young kids under the age of 6.

  Feel free to ask any other questions.

  Lisa
• 

  LDH

  Confession states:

  It's one thing for people to debate the pros and cons of a nation providing healthcare to its citizens. It is another to indignantly declare that everyone should have all their medical bills paid for as a basic, human right.

  Believe me, I know what it's like to be without insurance, and I know what it's like to owe an enormous amount of money to hospitals and doctors. But I do not believe that simply because I was born, that someone out there owes me anything.

  Absolutely.

  Here's a horrible but applicable example. Insurance is considered 'pooled risk." If I don't piss in the pool, it's not fair to make me get in the pool with those that do. When the time comes and I start pissing, I should be kicked out of the good pool and into the pool with pissy water. I shouldn't have to take a few gallons of pissy water and pour it in my crystal clear pool just to keep the pissers happy.

  I'm not stating this as a moral high horse, but to reiterate that insurance is a business and this is how it operates.

  It's crazy how many people here assume my family and I have perfect health or are millionaires because I'm explaining the way the industry operates.
• 

  LDH

  PS- last thought for the morning. What REALLY chaps my ass is companies like WALMART who teach their employees how to sign up for Medical instead of providing them insurance.

  That, and the fact that all of these white collar criminals play games with people's pension money, and when they retire they find they don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out.

  At least, you can understand insurance if you try hard enough. I find that I can't understand either of the above examples, or the fact that white collar criminals when caught, are slapped on the wrist.

  Lisa

  Shops Target, Boycotts Walmart Class