Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

• 

  sammielee24

  Government is awash in coerced $$$. It is out of control how it is taken and spent. Why add to the crime?

  If the problem is with the government and the people are the government..then the people must ensure the government is not corrupt and out of control. This being said, no government is perfect but if people were not quite so apathetic in some circumstances, than the government might be taken to task more often for choices made contrary to public opinion. I realize that one persons vote against socialized healthcare might very well be their stand against what they see as poor government and a person has that right.
• 

  sammielee24

  In the UK Health care is socialized. Dental care is not. I have never known one Brit (personally) not to have tooth problems and at the least, horrible dental hygiene.

  I don't think we can successfully equate the two issues - perhaps it's simply more of a culture thing with Brits. Canada does not include dental in it's health care either and yet we place dental hygiene and care on our list of priorities. Knowing how insurance works also, I have been to dentists that cleaned my teeth and examined them for a reasonable fee when I didn't have insurance but once I informed them I had insurance the bill rose substantially. I still paid the deductible myself out of pocket but their charges were at least double what they were when I had no insurance. sw.
• 

  LDH

  once I informed them I had insurance the bill rose substantially. I still paid the deductible myself out of pocket but their charges were at least double what they were when I had no insurance.

  The reason for this is very simple.

  Once you have insurance, the doctor or dentist is under a contractural agreement to be paid for certain services at a certain amount. It's known as a 'fee schedule' or in other language "reasonable and customary."

  The smaller services are paid at a higher rate with the hope that the smaller services will prevent the larger services. That's why most dental is paid on a triple tier or "100/80/50"

  in other words 100% of preventative care, 80 percent of basic care and 50% of major care.
• 

  LDH

  "September 13, 2005
  The Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) and the California Institute recently hosted a luncheon briefing entitled California's Medi-Cal Program: Can Costs Be Controlled? The briefing was provided by Thomas MaCurdy, an Adjunct Fellow at PPIC, President of The SPHERE Institute, and Professor of Economics at Stanford University. According to a recent study done by Professor MaCurdy and Hans Johnson, Research Fellow at PPIC, over the next ten years, California's costs under the Medi-Cal program (which administers federal Medicaid funds) are projected to grow at a faster rate than state revenues. Prof. MaCurdy also argued that his analysis reveals that most Medi-Cal spending is concentrated among a small number of recipients. 5 percent of Medi-Cal enrollees incur more than 60 percent of all costs. For substantial savings, the analysis finds that the state would have to lower the cost of long-term care for the elderly, services for the disabled, and hospital stays for the seriously ill. The $12 billion the state now spends annually on Medi-Cal is expected to reach nearly $29 billion annually by 2015 yet California's revenues are projected to grow more slowly."

  So please tell me how the state, who can't control their current medical cost budget, can create a budget and find the money for the uninsured and remain on budget.

  Lisa
• 

  stillconcerned

  Why tap the bankrobber on the shoulder and hand him your wallet?

  Terry you cracka me UP!

  Been dipping into Ayn Rand lately?
• 

  Eyebrow2

  Stillconcerned..that is funny, I am reading a few of her books right now. While I think Rand goes a little overboard on a few things, I do agree that charity shouldn't be complusory. While reading this thread I keep thinking of her books.

  A lot of people feel "robbed" by taxes. They feel so because they have been able to become successfull in this nation and support themselves.

  Some people do not do that, either because they won't, or in some cases they cannot.

  I really don't think that setting up a socialist health care systems in the US will help in the long run. Perhaps in the very short run, but I don't think the qualitiy can be maintained.

  Personally, I would like to see more private organizations open up clinics in the neighborhoods that need it the most. Clinics that get tax breaks, but not funds from taxes. I have a lot more faith in private business than I do in the government handling healthcare. Anyone been to a VA hospital? They vary in quality from facility to facility. My father used to have to travel an hour to a VA hospital for health care. It was an overcrowded hospital, with not a lot of organization, full of doctors that sometimes seemed like they didn't care. I tried to put it down to the fact they were just underpaid and overworked. But, my dad was nervous anytime he had to go there. Once he was very sick, and fortunately they transferred him to a better hospital. He was so relieved.

  The government was never intended to provide all things to people, nor should it, at least not the in the US. If we are going to give the "whole store" so to speak, then we are going to squash a lot of the business freedoms here that makes it possible for mom and pop shops and other small businesses to thrive.
• 

  Pole

  Well, let us take a more scientific approach.
  
  What are the results to the Capitalist economy vs. the results of the Socialist economy?
  
  Just the last hundred years should serve to create a solid case one way or the other.
  
  Why does the United States lead the world? It isn't because of democracy alone. It isn't because we are smarter, we aren't. Our educational system is not up to the task. We are fat, spoiled and self-righteous here in America. But, we attract innovation and stay ahead in technology for a reason firmly rooted in our Capitalist terra firma of allowing the movers and shakers of the world to own their own inventions and prosper from the ownership.
  
  Where our Capitalism fails is where it is eaten away by special interest meddling and government controls disguised as good stewardship. Honest businessmen are almost literally compelled to play the evil game of lobbying to swing legislation in their favor to dodge confiscatory taxes and other artificial tampering. Our Congress is in the business of using the law as a Protection Racket to acquire re-election money. It is a nasty system and corrosive. But, what remains of the beauty of the Capitalist bedrock of "ownership" and "protected rights" manages to float our boat quite nicely.

  
  
  Terry,
  
  I agree that a moderately capitalist economy is both practical and more efficient than a socialist one. As an example, I have much admiration for how the US promote gifted researchers in comparison with what is the case with most of Europe.
  
  But the whole issue of striking a balance between capitalism and socialism is much more than you have portrayed it. In your previous post you said, there is a mixed economy system rather than "true" capitalism in the US. Is that correct? If so, you are now claiming the mixed model of the US economy has ensured its international position? And can you give me any purer examples of capitalism?
  
  Let's return to the issue of healthcare. In an attempt to boost its economy even more, China has recently become similar to the US in one respect. They have an almost purely capitalist health care system. The result? 90% of their rular society can't afford any form of modern medicine. People in those areas have to depend on herbs. Also, China is notoriously incapable of containing epidemics. What's the advantage? The government doesn't have to worry about providing health care (unlike a couple of decades ago), so that it can focus on the economy, but it achieves it at the expense of hundreds of million of people. Eventually, it will backfire on them.
  
  Check out this article:
  
  http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501030519-451006,00.html
  
  Now, I'm not saying that China's communist system was better. What I'm saying is that both extreme or (if you like "pure" communism) and extreme ("pure") capitalism are like impressive, well-equipped and comfortable jet-planes that don't fly.
  
  Cheers,
  
  Pole
• 

  LittleToe

  Pole:
  If I may take you analogy a little further. The Chinese don't have a plane so the passengers get out (?) and walk to the ocean, then start swimming, and generally they don't make it. On the other hand the Americans get to sit in first class and drink champagne, eat, and watch an inflight movie, but don't actually get anywhere

  Lisa:Tax the private sector. Isn't that good government, to rob Peter to pay Paul?

  Btw, what's the average tax rate over there?
• 

  Dansk

  I've just popped into this thread for the first time and haven't read all the earlier posts, but when it comes to the jewel in Britain's crown, the NHS, I still think it is priceless AND can serve as a role model for all other countries. Lets' be perfectly frank, ALL health care should be the right of every citizen in the world. It is exprensive because big business makes it so, but there is no reason for it to be if profit isn't tantamount!

  Most here know of my battle with a serious disease. I am in a forum with others suffering the same from all around the world, but mostly the USA. My American colleagues are always going on about health insurance and will it cover their latest treatments, whilst I am getting the very best FREE!

  To be fair, the USA seems to be leading the way with research, as one would expect being the richest economy on the planet and, therefore, being able to attract the best brains. This research, once shared, is then made available to the NHS and I have been able to avail myself of the very latest drugs. One drug I have to use every 3 weeks with my chemo regimen is Rituximab, which costs £1800.00 ($2646.00) per shot. I get one shot with each chemo course, which should run for 7-8 courses (I've had 7 thus far). The Rituximab is then used as a control regimen on its own, but as yet I don't know where I stand with it as it is expensive for the NHS. In the USA, if one's health insurance is up to date one should get the shots regularly - but for how long????

  I have read on the forum I belong to how some Americans seem to stigmatize "socialized medicine". Obviously, they have no idea how it works because all I can say is I've been treated marvellously! One can be admitted into a hospital here, or see a GP, and know that there's no money to worry about. Every person will get treated for free (obviously, it isn't really free because it comes out of out national insurance contributions).

  I believe the USA could run a very successful socialized medicine program - the best in the world - but too many politicians, at the beck and call of big business, get in the way. That's the bottom line: the $!

  Regarding dental care in the UK. It's true. NHS dentistry has been allowed to rot (excuse the pun) but now there are efforts to revamp it. However, given the choice, I would rather pay for my dentistry and have a FREE NHS hospital/doctor service than the other way round. As it is, I am very fortunate, as my dentist is NHS too! Little Toe lives right out in the wilds, so it's little wonder an NHS dentist would be more difficult to locate than where I live. That said, the Scots are to be applauded for the way they (appear to) genuinely strive to help the populace without being constrained by UK governement (the all out smoking ban being a case in point).

  When health care is separated from big business it can move forward, but then will we get the best health care because it is profit that seems to inspire people to work to their best? But then again, why can't we have a profit-making health care system run by the state and not drug companies? If the will is there it can be achieved. Too many people are dying of AIDS, especially in Africa, and so the drugs are getting cheaper. Yes, it takes an epidemic and pressure from people to get the drug companies to share their knowledge and reduce prices - but it shows what can genuinely be achieved.

  My wife works in the NHS and lauds it. I've worked in it and feel the same. Now I'm a patient I appreciate just how much of a jewel we have in the UK. All politicians here know just how valuable (from a voting perspective) the NHS is. It's times like this I'm glad I live in the UK.

  Here's to everyone getting the treatment they deserve.

  Ian
• 

  Pole

  Regarding dental care in the UK. It's true. NHS dentistry has been allowed to rot (excuse the pun) but now there are efforts to revamp it. However, given the choice, I would rather pay for my dentistry and have a FREE NHS hospital/doctor service than the other way round. As it is, I am very fortunate, as my dentist is NHS too!
  
  Little Toe lives right out in the wilds, so it's little wonder an NHS dentist would be more difficult to locate than where I live. That said, the Scots are to be applauded for the way they (appear to) genuinely strive to help the populace without being constrained by UK governement (the all out smoking ban being a case in point).

  
  Fear no more! Le Dentiste polonaise" is on his way!
  Pole