Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    The Gub'mint can't even get basic necessities to its citizens in need in their hour of crisis, and yet somehow there is a contingent of the population who thinks they can effectively manage a national health care system.

    No one said the goverment has to decide how the system will work. They can put together a taskforce of private citizens who will figure out how it will work. Where the government comes in is to ensure that a system is constructed and put into action and funded with tax monies that they've ensured that all of us pay.

    Lisa, no one here said that the financially able shouldn't be able to buy procedures that today's insurance does not pay for. If you have plenty of money and want to buy yourself some nicks and tucks, then by all means go and buy them.

    All we want to see in this country is medical care for all citizens as Barry mentioned it is so in Australia. Waiting a while for elective procedures is not that big a problem. Elective being the keyword there. I've waited for elective procedures myself, for months. Why? Because I wanted to plan them for times when my children would have someone to watch them and I would have help when I got home. I've known people to postpone elective procedures so they wouldn't be wearing a cast during the summer heat. The point is that elective procedures are not always completely necessary or an emergency.

    Barry, are emergency or urgent medical procedures delayed?

  • barry
    barry

    All emergency and urgent procedures are delt with on i think they call it a triarge system. If you are in a car accident or a heart attack case will get immediate attention but someone that is just feeling unwell is accessed at the hospital and may have to wait an hour or two. Barry

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    IOW, start out with quality care and basic dignity for every person in a civilised nation, and let the rich add their own bells and whistles as they see fit.

    Exactly - somehow the definition of socialized health care seems to have gotten turned around - most socialized health care systems are paid for by your tax dollars. These dollars go into a pool and fund the hospitals and doctors so that at any time you need hospital care or doctors care - you get it. If your child has an ear infection - you get it checked out; if you have a heart attack - you go to the hospital; if you need a biopsy done - it's done. In Canada, those are basic services covered by your tax dollars already. If you choose to get cosmetic surgery - you pay for it yourself but if you need open heart surgery then its covered. The tax dollars paid into the system by the lowest paid worker to the highest is pooled and yes, it the covers those who don't work for whatever reason. It also covers yearly eye exams for kids and bi-yearly exams for adults etc. Many companies also offer health care benefits that will supplement your socialized care. The benefits cover things like prescription costs, eye glasses, dental work and so on - things that are considered above the basic needs. Socialized health care doesn't mean that people are lining up for breast augmentation or lasik surgery - they are in line for required blood tests or lung xrays, or in hospitals having their appendix out. The security of knowing that if you need surgery or need medical attention it is there for you, reduces your level of stress considerably and levels the playing field for everyone.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Thank you, Barry. So let me see if I understand correctly: Australians pay 1 1/2 percent tax to get national healthcare. They can afford their prescriptions because there is a system in place to even out the costs of high and low priced Rx copays. You get emergency care taken care immediately if it's life threatening and within two hours if it's not. Elective procedures you wait longer on. Sounds pretty good to me. Oh and lots of rich folks there think the national level of care is fine and don't elect to buy private insurance.

    When Americans came there to learn about your system, they probably came home and figured out that too many greedy politicians and big business medical providers weren't havin' none of that efficiency they enjoy down under. No, they might have to give up some of their ill gotten wealth.

  • barry
    barry

    flyinghighnow its something like that elective surgery there is a waite. i think in the states you have more specialists, here we have fewer and that is because all our doctors visits are firstly to a general practicioner which is cheaper and who accesses the need to be referred to a specialist doctor, Ibeleive this would be an area in the states where efficiency could be improved but it would mean loss of income for some high grade specialists. As ive said before im no expert in these things Barry

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    I have friends in Canada (grew up in NY) who complained of waiting 6 or 7 months for elective procedures. That would scare me.

    ...I grew up in Canada and never waited that long for any treatment...it likely may happen to some people but that isn't really the norm. I needed 2 cysts removed at different times and they needed to be biopsied..my doctor set me up with a specialist within 2 weeks both times and after his evaluation/tests, I was booked for the hospital for the surgeries within the same amount of time. All of this cost me nothing out of pocket. I could spout story after story after story but won't bother. I would rather pay higher taxes and know that everyone has the same right to that healthcare, even if there was a month long wait, than I would have to live with the constant fear of getting sick. Canada is much the same as Australia/England and most other countries that have the same sort of health care system - none are perfect but not one of those countries looks to the US as an example of how a good health care system operates.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    i think in the states you have more specialists, here we have fewer and that is because all our doctors visits are firstly to a general practicioner which is cheaper and who accesses the need to be referred to a specialist doctor

    Actually, here a lot of the insurance plans don't want people seeing specialists either. Why? Because it costs the insurance company more. And that is fine if only people who don't really need a specialist are screened out. Sometimes people that need to see specialists are told no and with ill results.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    flyinghigh...that is how the Canadian system works. The hospitals are triage based - they determine the emergency upon arrival at the hospital and those in dire need are taken in first. Heart attacks etc and any ambulance arrivals will push the bloody noses to the back of the line. Elective surgeries may take longer to book and complete - depends on a lot of factors - I was getting a septum repair and originally booked for surgery 6 months ahead but there was a cancellation 4 months ahead of that schedule so I took that space. This wasn't a life or death situation so I couldn't complain - but again, my 3 day stay and surgery and follow up were all covered. Canada and Australia are almost the same I think as far as health care systems go.

  • fairchild
    fairchild
    For the TRULY POOR there is a safety net available. I have posted several references. For the WORKING POOR there is probably not a safety net option for them. That is where planning comes in.

    I would have 100% agreed to this statement if it wasn't for the last 6 words. You still seem to believe that the poor, even the working poor, are poor because they didn't plan ahead or they are just not good at planning. As both Viviamus and FHN have mentioned, there are situations where it is simply impossible to put a little aside each month, it doesn't mean that a person doesn't know how to save.

    Let me start with an example here (and I know that you will nod while reading this and say "See, I TOLD you so".

    One of my friends has a good income, and so does her husband, but they are always short on cash. However, they have a fourwheeler, a snowmobile, a boat, a harley, three cars, including a brand new BMW, two computers, a fax, three TVs, VCR, DVD, she buys new carpets for her bathroom twice a year, she doesn't want to buy clothes second hand, because "somebody else has worn them", she needs a new couch every other year, you name it.. I KNOW, there are a LOT of people who live like that. In her opinion, all the things she has are things she needs. She always tells me that she would never buy anything she didn't need. I let her have her opinion, although I very strongly disagree. However, you can't tell such people that they are overspending, because they would be really offended.

    But you MUST understand that not everyone is just like that. Every situation is different and to say that "the poor" need to plan better is rather ridiculous. You have NO idea. Do you know why the reactions of FHN and myself and some others are sharp? Because we know better. It is very wrong to tell people who are struggling to get by that they should have planned ahead, or that this is where planning comes in, because perhaps the reason why they are struggling is NOT because they didn't plan ahead. Chances are that they are perfectly capable of planning. If one has a loaf of bread, one can eat a few slices and put the rest away for later, but if one only has a few cumbs, one has to eat them all in order to stay alive, it's really that simple. We can go on and on and on, but to be quite honest, I don't think it's worth my time anymore at this point.

    When I look around my place, I can tell you for an absolute fact that the only items (other than food, catfood, cat litter and bathroom items such as soap and shampoo, and *some* of my books, underwears and socks, are the ONLY things I have ever bought new. Everything else, from the clothes in my dresser to the spoons in my kitchen are second hand items. I don't have a car, a microwave, dishwasher, DVD, CD, dryer, hairdryer, etc... I live on bare necessities. I bought my workboots second hand 5 years ago and they are now held together with duct tape because the soles are falling apart. Should you put all my possessions on a pile and sell them, they wouldn't be worth more than a few hundred dollars, (if that much) although my computer (which was second hand and a gift from someone) might push the total up to about a thousand dollars. After my rent, electricity, phone and internet bill (which is the cheapest I could get at $10 a month) are paid, I have $90 left. Although I live in a very cold climate where 30 below is not an exception, I only use my heat briefly in the morning to take a shower. At this moment, I am sitting on the computer, wearing gloves and a jacket which I bought for a dollar two winters ago. The $90 which is left after paying my bills is for groceries and to pay off thousands of dollars in hospital bills. If you know how to make better planning with those 90 dollars, please do tell.

    Why not get a better job, huh? I work a seasonal job, which provides lots of hours during July and August, but comes winter, those hours are reduced to almost nothing. Between September and the end of June, I live off the money I made in July and August. On top of that I am having heart problems and I'm not even supposed to do the kind of work I am doing. An extra job for the wintermonths perhaps? Close to impossible without a vehicle. Also, the area where I live is practically deserted in wintertime, there simply are no jobs. And how does one buy a car if there are only $90 a month to live on? See what I mean? It is a vicious circle. At this point, it isn't about planning, it is about surviving. I am not ashamed to admit that I am picking my neighbor's empty beer cans up from the yard, they throw them all over the place, and it saves me at least $5 a month on my grocery bill.

    I am notorious for being "cheap", so I didn't end up with absolutely nothing because I didn't know how to save. At work, they save the little plastic beef and turkey base containers for me instead of throwing them out, because they know that I use them in springtime to start my vegetables indoors. I use my firepit outside to cook on so that I wouldn't have to use my electric stove. The only light in the house is the light which comes from my computer monitor, I use a miniature flashlight to walk around the house. The $50 I pay for electricity includes a $36 basic charge, so I use $14 worth a month in electricity, and my heat is electric!

    For the WORKING POOR there is probably not a safety net option for them.

    Indeed, that is right.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    The world owes nothing to any one of us.

    Let them all die.

    HB

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