by Star Moore 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Does that creation include your body and it's expressions of connection to the Divine?
Further, does it eliminate the expressions of others, as may or may not be recorded in certain ancient manuscripts?
Is it possible that reading the expressions of another can spark a sympathetic response in us that opens up our own latent ability to "connect"?
Just a few questions as you seem quite dismissive of the subject, though I apologise in advance if I've misconstrued what you were saying
LT I understand that your position is that all baptised Christians are annointed as long as they are serious believers.
What I was saying is that when a JW I could never understand why some dubs thought they were annointed unlike the rest. I used to think that to be annointed one had to have some unusual spiritual works in his favour or was at least determined to do them in the future. It couldn't be just a feeling, apparently if I read you correctly you believe that's wrong, so why?
I also believe that the GB are intentionally failing to clarify the issue so as not to draw attention to the fact that spiritually there is nothing elite about them.
LDH you are right, if the GB really respected the "annointed" they would take them more seriously, they are after all the spokesman of the annointed (who appointed them as such anyway) so they should hear from them.
Many of their so called annointed are just fruitcakes but some have serious spiritual credentials (spent decades preaching, sacrificed marriage and making money, proved morally integral)and I know they don't always agree with the policies of the GB. Otherwise the GB drove them to total redundancy.
Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say...
Maybe there is another point to be made here, beyond the "experiences" and the "interpretations"--
For to hold with the JW mindset, all this is heavily tied to a totally illogical "chronology"...and a stubborn insistence that the number 144000 is a literal.
I.E. you really would have to believe that EVERYBODY got "chosen" from year 1 or so up until about 1925 when the end "should have come around" (well, or substitute 1834, 1874, 1913, 1914 as you wish). Now we have a problem: there are around 100000 of the friends all here AT THE SAME TIME! This means the end has not come and now there is no room for expansion and precious few could have been chosen ones for the past 1900 years!
In come da JUDGE! Well look, we were right all along, us oldsters were special and still are, but now anybody else can come in as a sort of second class citizen past 1931-1935 to avoid Occams razor. Doesn't matter that your immediate predecessor who thought HE was THE faithful and discreet slave never had to think of it because he went to his pyramid grave still believing the end was right around the corner.
Here is where all of this fails my test of consistency - as posted by someone earlier; NO OTHER CHRISTIAN group has to my knowledge EVER cooked up such a definition of a literal 144000 christlike mediator class who are specially "chosen" but only along a certain timeline which just happened to run out about 1931. And now, unbelievably, they face another chronology vs. numbers crisis: why does the annointed number just hover around 8500 or so? How can the Governing Body still be Real Annointed and not be so senile that they are practically in diapers?
Maybe it would be a lot easier to just put all Christians on equal grounds all through time and get rid of all this special stuff - apostle Paul had to do this way back when with Gentiles vs. Jews...
I say let go of the two caste system.
James
LT I understand that your position is that all baptised Christians are annointed as long as they are serious believers.
No, that's not my position at all. Not even close. See below.
What I was saying is that when a JW I could never understand why some dubs thought they were annointed unlike the rest. I used to think that to be annointed one had to have some unusual spiritual works in his favour or was at least determined to do them in the future. It couldn't be just a feeling, apparently if I read you correctly you believe that's wrong, so why?
I'm afraid I'm not following you. I don't understand your basic premise. However, given that the WTS is so vague on the subject, and there's plenty of rumour, gossip and speculation, I guess that's no wonder.
I also believe that the GB are intentionally failing to clarify the issue so as not to draw attention to the fact that spiritually there is nothing elite about them.
I concur. In fact I would go so far as to say that many of them are likely spiritually bankrupt!
My basic theological position is as follows (and is my opinion, right or wrong):
God chooses whom he wants to adopt, by virtue of His right to choose whomever He wants, and has nothing to do with our works. Sometimes it's accompanied by feelings and experiences, often it's not. Generally you don't have to be in the company of one for long before you know, as your spirit testifies, though some are such dim lights it's difficult to tell. That "quenching the Spirit" thing is a bit of a b*gger!
As for whether an individual then leaves the JWs, gets baptised and/or joins a church, that would be at the discretion of the Holy Spirit to lead them that way. I'm pretty certain that there's an individual work for each to do, but it's different for each. Just as each part of the body has a role, so too with the body of Christ.
The one key and fundamental similarity is their head, which is Christ. They may have left their first love, but nonetheless this one remains the love of their life. Oftentimes that spark is rejuvinated by hearing anothers' experience of coming to love the one whom they love.
For this reason, a totally solitary existance can be counterproductive to a spiritual walk. At least that's how I would describe it in the Christian framework
This would include those in and out of Christian churches. Further, not all the religous are Christians (anointed / born again / etc. - pick a title), by this definition.
James:Amen.
Thanks LittleToe,
and may I just rant further - wouldn't this all go away without a whimper if they just let everybody partake of the emblems at long last and QUIT COUNTING?
James
Little if you are one of the Anointed than I believe I am in good hands. As one, you will be ruling over me in Gods Kingdom.
Derrick:You are in very good hands, if you let Christ take you into his hands...
If you don't then there's likely little chance that anyone will be ruling over you, except maybe...
Hello All,
Who's definition, WTS ?... NO !
(Acts 10:34-38) 34
At this Peter opened his mouth and said: "For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, 35 but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him. 36 He sent out the word to the sons of Israel to declare to them the good news of peace through Jesus Christ: this One is Lord of all [others]. 37 YOU know the subject that was talked about throughout the whole of Ju·de´a, starting from Gal´i·lee after the baptism that John preached, 38 namely, Jesus who was from Naz´a·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him. . .I think those verses explanes it pretty good, we all have the oppertunity to be "Anointed".
Personally I'm of another belief, similar but differant.
I would say I have a "Christ Consciousness" that I have a "Cosmic Consciousness" or that I'm "cosmically aware" ("Cosmic Awareness")
As far as living in heaven or on earth, Jesus taught you can live in both, if you learn how.
Here one clue...Luke Chapter 17:21. Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the Kingdom of God is within you.
But can you really trust what the bible says?
Ninety percent of all religious teachings are designed to manipulate minds and emotions to catch, hold and extract energy and devotion from its followers, while only 10 percent of such teachings are truly priceless and valuable to one's social, physical and spiritual welfare.
I encourage you to search out the highest and the best in every religion or science, to take the 10 percent that is priceless and throw the rest away as the garbage which it is, for it clutters our living space if we keep it around.
As heat turns ice to water, water to steam and steam to air, so Cosmic Awareness melts one's crystallized thought patterns into emotions, ideas, feelings, expanded consciousness and finally Into the Universal spirit of the purity of the Christ Consciousness which is the Heavenly or Universal Spirit of God.
Then speaking as that Christ Consciousness, one can truly say: "I and the Father, are One." Its time has come, ready or not. Cosmic Awareness asks not that you sacrifice, not that you believe, not that you bow in worship to It, but that you love one another, serve one another, and that you become aware -- cosmically aware.
Anyway that's how I live my life.
What religion teaches about God, what God is, and our relation to God, is differant than what Jesus taught.
Kind Regards
Acadian
