Why do you assume that God is using any man-made organization?
What is God's true organization he is using? if this not it, then point me
Here is something that really hit home for me. When Jesus asked Peter if he would leave him what did Peter say?
Where will I go???? (That is the answer every JW will give) That is the wrong answer.
Peter said "WHOM Will I go to?" John 6:68
The answer is Christianity is about following Jesus, not any organisation. Ask you husband the same question and see whether he says where or whom.
I would definitely agree with everyone that said to read Franz' In search of Christian Freedom. In case you don't have enough to read there is some information at
that contains some ideas that I found interesting. History clearly shows there was no organisation like JW's before Rutherford changed it in the 1930's, and definitely none even remotely like it before Russell started it in the 1800's.
If your husband does not like to read apostate information then recommend he reads the Studies in the Scriptures as he will soon see that the religion Russell started was widely different than today, participating in much paganist teachings and substantial reliance on wrong date predictions.
the answer is that shepherds are predators who fleece and slaughter flocks of sheep...
there never was an organization in the first place other than an organization of predators conning the fearful.
I just love it when they fall back on the "Jehovah is using imperfect men to run his organization".
What does that really mean? A perfect God would use imperfect men, to run his now imperfect organization, and have those imperfect men expect perfection out of the rest of the flock.
I believe the reason why most witnesses join in the shunning ritual is that it help shield them from their own imperfection and enables them to dirrect attention to someone else- "a common enemy"
Love to you all
I just wanted to say to you relentless mommy and sister that i am glad you came back - i was wondering about you today. Be prepared for opposition. Is your hubby still a JW?
Welcome, amommy. I wish you well in this situation. I have had nearly the same conversation with members of my family. I just keep asking who, where, and how was the authority of the organization established? If they tell you 1919, you can easily point out what the organization was teaching in 1919. Ask if they know that you could be disfellowshipped for apostacy for practicing most of the things that were being taught at that time.
And don't be thrown off by slave1111. He's our resident man-god and very entertaining. I am campaigning to be one of his apostles. Amen!!
Hi Again to all.... I do appreciate everyone's comments. I bought the book! COC
I can't put it down and have been reading it with my husband. He is as shocked as I am. Obviously Raymond is sincere. But in a way it does'nt surprise me. I mean things are so unbelievably dogmatic.My mom hasn't spoke to me in three weeks.My dad passed away two years ago. They reinstated him on his literal deathbed after many pleas. My mom remarried a year later to a regular pioneer who is extreme. She is hopeless at this point. I just can't believe how us who were born into this are so programmed and brainwashed. It's like even though I reasonably know this cannot be the truth now I am still pulled by a force unknown. I feel so programmed to doubt my own self. Even though the evidence is credible and overwhelming. Much love to all dedicating time to reply to me.
Please post anything that you think I may find intriguing ... I want to learn what is pure!
Welcome to the board!
Do you know that they own 50% share in a company that makes engines for war crafts?
And shares in a company that makes cigarettes?
Keep reading the board!
Welcome back, amommy! I, too, was scared that we shooed you away. Congratulations for your bravery in looking, congratulations on your sincerity. Remember, he who seeks, finds. You are interested in all that is pure and true, huh? I don't think you will find a single human-led organization on earth that doesn't have some problems. I visualize my way of dealing with the uncertainty in my world by chewing on the meat and spitting out the bones. That way, I find value nearly every place I go. I don't demand perfection from my church or my friends.
Here's some of my favorite links:
Jesus I Never Knew, The
by Phillip Yancy
"Jesus: The Words of Jesus"
Another thing amommy, is that the WT deliberately kept us away from Jesus as the Mediator between God and man. I have asked a few JWs since we have left who their mediator is, and they all say Jesus, and yet the WT say NO. They have stated on a number of occassions that the Other Sheep are Not a part of the Mediatorship of Jesus, only the 'anointed class'.
Most JWs will be shocked to know that is what they teach.
AMAZINGLY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES DO NOT HAVE JESUS AS THEIR MEDIATOR, SO SAYS THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE & TRACT SOCIETY.
*** Watchtower 1979 April 1 p.31 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
• Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?
The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under "Mediator"; also God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing for Man's Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading "Leading the Way to a New Covenant"; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading "The New Covenant."
*** Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11 ch.1 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***
16 Just as the ancient nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God through the mediator Moses, so the nation of spiritual Israel, "the Israel of God," has a covenant relationship through a mediator. (Galatians 6:16) It is as the apostle Paul wrote to his Christian fellow worker: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5) Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah's sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.
*** Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***
8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.
11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."—Romans 8:21.
*** Watchtower 1998 February 1 pp.20-2 The Other Sheep and the New Covenant ***
10 "Everyone" who "exercises faith in the Son" will benefit from the ransom sacrifice. (John 3:16, 36) Paul said: "The Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin and to those earnestly looking for him for their salvation." (Hebrews 9:28) Toda y, those earnestly looking for Jesus include surviving anointed Christians of the Israel of God and the millions making up the great crowd, who also have an everlasting inheritance. Both classes thank God for the new covenant and for the life-giving blessings associated with it, including the greater Atonement Day and the ministry of the High Priest, Jesus, in the heavenly Most Holy.
13 What happens when the last of the 144,000 realize their heavenly hope? Will the new covenant cease to apply? At that time, there will be on earth no remaining member of the Israel of God. All participants in the covenant will be with Jesus "in the kingdom of [his] Father." (Matthew 26:29) But we remember Paul's words in his letter to the Hebrews: "The God of peace . . . brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an everlasting covenant." (Hebrews 13:20; Isaiah 55:3) In what sense is the new covenant everlasting?
I copied this off the quotes site, before the tyrrants of the WT got it taken off the web.