Why all the venom? (page 17)

greendawn

Fred, the JWs have relegated Jesus to a very marginal position whereas he should have been central in the Christian faith. Instead for the JWs jehovah the god of the old testament is central. As for worshiping the Son it depends what is meant by worship, let's not forget he has divine status even if as a god, and clearly God gave him everything while the apostles often called him lord. If you like he is a god because his Father made him one.

Fred E Hathaway

I still find your research and your choices to be rather limited. Try this: http://www.blueletterbible.org/

I find the NWT to be an excellent, scholarly base - quite well-grounded linguistically and doctrinally. I would love to see the WTS come out with a Reference Bible with the same page-size/weight as the regular bi12. I am also interested in getting my hands on a fully-transliterated Hebrew Tanakh (Old Testament) to get a feel for the original Hebrew and Greek thought patterns. Otherwise, I find my study program to work fairly well for me. I just wish that it could be easier to find common ground. It seems that so many have tastes that don't line up for easy conversation. I suppose you have a different meaning to the word "limited" than what I'm responding to.

Fred E Hathaway

Fred, the JWs have relegated Jesus to a very marginal position whereas he should have been central in the Christian faith. Instead for the JWs jehovah the god of the old testament is central. As for worshiping the Son it depends what is meant by worship, let's not forget he has divine status even if as a god, and clearly God gave him everything while the apostles often called him lord. If you like he is a god because his Father made him one.

I don't see that actually. The NWT, which is their translation, doesn't marginalize him at all. Sure, he's a created being like all but Jehovah himself, but Jesus is still clearly second in command in the entire universe, and has been since his creation, from Jehovah's standpoint. Being the ransom for mankind is no small matter, neither was his position as the Master Worker, nor his current status as King Michael, nor as head of the Christian Congregation. Anyone in a divinely-appointed role as a judge is a god, actually, as we know from John 10:34, which Jesus applied from a discussion of Psalm 82.

willyloman

greendawn correctly said:

the JWs have relegated Jesus to a very marginal position

Fred replied, in perfect dub side-stepping fashion:

I don't see that actually. The NWT, which is their translation, doesn't marginalize him at all.

This is precisely the sort of doubletalk that led most of us to flee from the WT organization. I was a dub for nearly 30 years, served in a number of responsible positions and was widely acknowledged to be one of the best "teachers" in the congregation. I know exactly what greendawn is saying, and he is right. The dub organization marginalizes Jesus. Its a Hebrew-centric religion, a new-and-improved form of Judaism, disguised as Christianity.

What Fred doesn't wish to acknowledge is that it doesn't make any difference what the NWT (or any Bible translation) says. The dubs, despite paying lip service to being a "bible-based" religion, place the WTS writings, teachings, doctrines and interpretations far above the Bible itself.

Nobody can be dub for any length of time and not know that. You can deny it. But you can't not know it.

Finally-Free

Its a Hebrew-centric religion, a new-and-improved form of Judaism, disguised as Christianity.

That's got to be one of the best descriptions I've ever heard of the JW religion.

W

jgnat

...uh, I don't think the Jews would consider it "improved". At least in their schools, they first teach their children to think and to question. The JW's follow letters of the Word without checking the meaning. Case in point, their interpretation of taking blood.

betterdaze

Where is the scripture referring to "King Michael?" Anyone?

~Sue

acadian

Fred said,

nor his current status as King Michael

Revelation 1:1
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Why not a revelation of Michael Christ?

Every knee will bend to what name? Michael or Jesus? according to scripture...

Philippians 2:9-11
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Maybe the NWT is differant?

Acadian

willyloman

...uh, I don't think the Jews would consider it "improved".

And neither do I, sweetie. But the dubs do.

Fred E Hathaway

I'm combining Revelation 12:7 and Revelation 19:16.

Why all the venom?

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