Why all the venom?

by lynnmelo 175 Replies latest members adult

• 

  AuldSoul

  lynnmelo,

  I appreciate your respectful tone. Welcome!

  I would say my venom comes from the fact that I will soon be ejected from the organization for no crime other than daring to demonstrate that a teaching is not Bible based and daring to demonstrate that an act of the organization violated their own standards.

  I invite you to read Matthew 23 and ask yourself whether Jesus was saying those things like this, "Woopsie, whose a wittle Phawisee? You are, yes you are, you wittle offspwings of wittle wiggle-worms." I can't really picture him saying those words tenderly.

  When he recognized that the leaders of a religious sect in his day were abusing the people they claimed to be teaching, he took them task. And he did not do so kindly. And he did not do so privately. They were expelling anyone who confessed him as the Christ. He encouraged people to follow him anyway. He was actively gathering people out of that corrupt organization/

  Understand, I believe the Watchtower Society is no different than the Pharisees. They are by far not the only group that match the criteria, but they are the one I know the most intimately.

  Whose example should I follow, if not Jesus'?

  AuldSoul
• 

  daniel-p

  lynn,
  
  First of all, welcome.
  
  If you see and hear any "venom" its because our lives have been ****ed over by this Organization.
  
  They have raised false hopes and dreams to get us emotionally atatched to them. How many YEARS I've spent dreaming about paradise and how everything will be perfect and I would see my loved ones again! They manipulate information. Simply put, they use propagandistic tools and tactics to convert and obligate people into service. They mismanage funds. Billions of dollars are collected and spent on the wellfare of their special full-time volunteers and the production of literature and the construction of residences and factories, but hardly a penny toward the expenses of the distressed ones in disaster areas. For that, they depend on further donations from the rank and file. They are hypocrites. They have archaic, regressionary policy concerning child molestation and other offenses within the congregation but are quick to try to extract the straw in their brother's eye when it comes to all the council we get at meetings, assemblies and publications.
  
  Where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit? I see evidence of good accounting and book keeping, I see evidence of effective sales strategies, evidence of strict watch on the rank & file, evidence of paranoia and regressionary policy, evidence of politics in the higher ranks... I could go on and on. When you come down to it, the only "evidence" we, or anyone, will have of the Holy Spirit is on a one-on-one level and how we treat each other individually. The fact that the faithful and discreet slave provides regular spiritual food is not evidence that they are endowed with God's Holy Spirit. It is evidence that they spend our contributions on effective means of production and have thousands of unpaid, willing laborers. What about the reduction in the quantity of "spiritual food"? If the regular quantity of food is evidence, than what is the reduction of that quantity evidence of?
  
  What this organization teaches MAKES NO SENSE. God cannot possibly destroy the good with the wicked, right? So if God will not destroy every non-JW at Armaggedon, why are we saying that it is not enough to have a good heart and practice good works?
  
  There has NOT always been an organization. What about that little stretch of time from 98 C.E. and 1870's? What the hell happened then? Why would Jehovah make it absolutely impossible to identify the one "true religion"? And was Abraham an organization unto himself? Is a family an organization? By that reasoning, we are all organizations....
  
  And what the **** kind of God would have a newborn infant killed just to make a point? En masse, even?
  
  My goodness, I am raving here... sorry for going on and on about this. These are just some of the primary reasons why I am feeling more and more like this organization is just that - a man-made prganization that is both effective and ineffective at controlling information.
• 

  Bryan

  My daughter won't speak to me because the Watchtower tells her not to. Why? Because I'm a drunk? Because I abuse her?

  NO. It's because I don't believe as she does. Can you understand why the anger now?

  Hope you hang around!

  Bryan

  Have You Seen My Mother
• 

  ozziepost

  Where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit?

  A sidepoint: I recall a branch overseer speaking with me in the middle of Service Department and saying, "Holy Spirit???? Holy Spirit's got nothing to do with this place!"

  At least he was honest.
• 

  SWALKER

  lennmelo...welcome to the board. I can appreciate that it looks like people are spewing venom and sometimes they are. I come from a long, long line of JW's and I could write a book on all the injustices done by this organization. Some of the things would make your hair stand on end. If you have never been in on the dark side of the org it's easy to understand why you say what you do. It all looks so good and they paint a pretty picture, but that's not the reality once you are in. You really are treated differently until you are baptized, and even then for a while as you are considered new. After you have sat at those boring meetings for (in my case) some 40 + years and heard the same thing you are hearing today, you can't understand the frustration that so many feel. I was told I would probably never start school...Armageddon was coming any day now. I was told I would never graduate from HS...Armageddon any day now. I was told I would never get married, have kids, get older...Armageddon was any day now. Now that I have 2 grown sons...Armageddon is coming any day now. Just kind of wised up and realized not everything they teach is the TRUTH. My mom/parents, heard it for 40 more years than I did and they got tired of hearing it finally also. As a matter of fact I lasted a year longer than they did. My 80 year old Mom wants to write her DA letter, but I just tell her that she doesn't need the hassle at her age. She asks anyone who will listen (friends still in the org) to tell her exactly what prophesies they have predicted that have come true. In all her years as a witness, she can't remember one. She would like for them to apply Deut.18:20-22 to themselves where it belongs!

  I hope that you read and study on your own...as there are many false teachings by the JW's. But they make it sound convincing. I know I made it sound that way for many years!

  Swalker
• 

  AuldSoul

  Lynnmelo,

  Think about some of the things that people get angry about: disfellowshipping, shunning, blood issue, going door to door, etc. All of these have a scriptural basis, no matter how much any of us wishes it didn't. The Witnesses aren't making this stuff up.

  A thought occurred to me. Had you ever known any of these Scriptures prior to contact with Witnesses? If not, is it possible that you have been led to think a certain way about many teachings of the Bible through not knowing what the other Scriptures say?

  For instance, you mention house-to-house witnessing. Did you know that the primary means of witnessing wasn't from house-to-house? It was primarily teaching in the Synagogues and temples, or open-air marketplaces. In fact, many commentators believe that the phrase house-to-house refers to the practice of meeting in the various homes of those who already believed to encourage each other.

  You see, in Acts the thought of teaching "from house to house" is expressed only once in a context that could be understood to mean teaching non-believers in that manner. The only other instance of the expression refers specifically to believers because Paul was speaking only to the older men of Ephesus. Check it out for yourself.

  Acts 5:41-42 — These, therefore, went their way from before the San´he·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name. And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.

  Acts 20:17-24 — However, from Mi·le´tus he sent to Eph´e·sus and called for the older men of the congregation. When they got to him he said to them: “YOU well know how from the first day that I stepped into the [district of] Asia I was with you the whole time, slaving for the Lord with the greatest lowliness of mind and tears and trials that befell me by the plots of the Jews; while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. But I thoroughly bore witness both to Jews and to Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus. And now, look! bound in the spirit, I am journeying to Jerusalem, although not knowing the things that will happen to me in it, except that from city to city the holy spirit repeatedly bears witness to me as it says that bonds and tribulations are waiting for me. Nevertheless, I do not make my soul of any account as dear to me, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received of the Lord Jesus, to bear thorough witness to the good news of the undeserved kindness of God."

  These are the only two references in the New Testament referring to house-to-house except for the occasion when Jesus said, "Do not be transferring from house to house." On the other hand, the references to teaching either publicly or specifically in the Temples/Synagogues number into the dozens.

  Have you been misled? I believe so. Do you know for certain you have not? I don't believe so. If you ever come to know for certain that you have, will you be a little upset? What if you spent 32 years of your life being misled, how upset would you be?

  Might you have some venom for the organization that misled you? I think you'd be justified.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Hey, if you really, truly believed the witnesses on all counts, you'd leave the "evil academic world '" behind. Eventually, when you just hang around and don't get baptized, you may find out part of the answer to your question.

  The things you mentioned, you may feel have a scriptural basis. The witnesses ban all sorts of things on NO scriptural basis. And on basis of those non scriptural bans, they disfellowship people. Some of those people have children and grandchildren that they lose for no good scriptural reason. Some kids lose their parents for no scriptural reason. Imagine not being able to see your children or grandchildren because you celebrated your birthday, had a cigar now and then or just simply decided you no longer could be one of Jehovah's Witnesses based on your principles.

  Maybe according to the Bible, God does not require much of us. Become one of JW's and you will soon find out that their yoke is not kindly and it is not light. They place huge burdens on their members. They also have so many rules that you will think you are under some new "Mosaic Law".

  There is more, but I will leave it at that. Welcome to the board. Come and sit a spell.
• 

  Insomniac

  Everyone's coming at this from a different set of experiences, so you'll certainly see a whole spectrum of attitudes from people if you hang around this board long enough. My guess is that the folks here who are in the most pain and who carry the most anger, will also tend to be somewhat more vocal than those who are more well-adjusted. So, at times it seems like there's a lot of really angry, bitter people on here, when in fact they comprise only a smallish percentage of the group as a whole.

  Personally, I hold no anger towards witnesses because of their faith. I have family and friends, whom I love, in that religion, and I used to be one of them myself. I don't think I was evil, just very, very misguided. Most of the witnesses I know are sincere, decent people, trying to lead good lives. I do have a lot of problems with the organization that deceives them and breaks up families and condones child abuse, though, to the point that it does make me angry at times. I just try not to be shrill about it, and to keep my expression of that anger civil.

  Welcome to the board- I hope you have a positive experience here.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Welcome to the forum!

  My in-law's are shunning me because I don't believe the way they do. Can you imagine Jesus Christ telling his disciples to do that?

  But then, as you mentioned, there are scriptures supporting DF'ing. Or are there? Actually, the scriptures they use -- if you read them without a Watchtower bias -- are clearly advice to the congregation and not commands. It is certainly good advice to avoid a drunkard or an idolator if you're trying to be a Christian. Showing that the first century Christians did NOT practice total shunning is one of the JW's own proof texts -- 2 Corinthians 2:6. It says [of a man that had sinned] "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man". In identifying a majority, Paul makes it clear that a minority did NOT shun the man. Yet they weren't punished, chastised, nothing. The Watchtower has taken some good general advice ("don't hang around bad people") and turned it into a family-destroying shunning law.

  I work in an academic environment where everyone there is pretty progressive minded, and I'd have greater legitimacy in their eyes if I told them I was an alien from Mars than if I told them I am a JW.

  Honestly, think about it. What you're saying is that the smart people in your life would think you were making a bad move if you involved yourself with JW's. Maybe they're smart about this, too? Why not ask them what they think? After all, as you pointed out, ex-JW's are biased. And current JW's are certainly biased. Your friends/co-workers might be your best shot at a neutral 3rd party to get a "sanity check" from.

  Glad you're here!

  Dave
• 

  Mulan

  Some of us have gone through some really bad times, because of having been associated with them.

  I was a JW since the age of 4 until I was 50 years old. I was very bitter, very angry and distraught over the wasted years of my life and my children's lives. After 10 years, I am over that anger, and just try to help others in transition. I am not disfellowshipped, nor is my husband, a former elder. We just faded away over a period of 2 years, after he resigned as an elder. He was a very serious Bible student and really dug into the scriptures and their teachings, preparing to conduct the weekly Watchtower study. He learned very disturbing things.

  What they teach is not truth, as a serious investigation at any library will show you. When we all started to do that, yes we were mad, we were hurt, we were destroyed. I'm sure, as you read here, you will begin to understand.

  Welcome to our board.