Of Late Many Here Seem To Be Preaching Aethiesm.. (page 9)

nicolaou

Let's look at just a few of the sciences.

Biology
Truly dead people do not come back to life.
Leprosy, withered hands, paralysis, blood flows etc cannot be healed by a word or touch.

Genetics
The human race cannot be decended from the restricted gene pool of 8 'post-flood' humans, much less 2 'edenic' ones!

Geography
The Earth was not covered by a global ocean some 4400 years ago.

Mathematics
The sum of the parts cannot be greater than the whole. (Matthew 15:32-38; Mark 8:1-9)

Physics
Humans cannot walk on water, neither can axe-heads float.

....Don't think I've ever "triple posted" myself before.....'must calm down'.....

AuldSoul

In my opinion, from a scientific viewpoint atheists have nothing to prove. They only have things yet to discover.

Equally, from a scientific viewpoint theists have nothing to prove. They only have things yet to discover.

Since, scientifically speaking, the objective is identical; it strikes me as odd that the two groups waste any energy at all on a question that by the very nature of its subject cannot be proven scientifically. Namely, is there a God?

For purposes of the advancement of scientific endeavor, it doesn't matter what the answer is.

Is it fun to debate that question? Yes. But those who most fervently believe in God have God's force in their life as evidence for themselves, and those who do not believe in God either do not have this force or do not recognize this force in their lives and therefore have no evidence.

I do not comprehend anyone advocating atheism. I do not understand how theism inhibits someone in any real way, therefore I don't understand an attempt to eliminate anyone's theism. I submit that what theists have discovered through the centuries argues strongly against a limiting effect on cognition inherent in theism. The atheists I know typically are not against others believing in God(s). They are (almost to a person) against religions that tell people what to think and how to feel about things.

I believe atheists on this forum would be directing their efforts much more effectively if they became advocates of a positive position instead of advocates for a negative one. The ability to think for ourselves as individuals separates me from insects. Why not advocate for this? Surely theists and atheists can agree on the societal benefits of using the brain we've been given.

That I attribute my brain to a different source does not make me better or worse than an atheist, it makes me different. If I allow that belief to inhibit my thought processes I am still no better or worse than an atheist, for atheists are just as apt to allow their beliefs to inhibit cognition as I am. In other words, if I limit myself where is the harm? If I limit others (the effect of religion) I have caused harm.

Atheism is active belief in the non-existence of God. If atheists propagandize their beliefs they harm others as surely as any other religion. If they proselytize converts they are no better or worse than other religions who do the same. If they scoff and deride the beliefs of others they prove themselves clergy. If they persecute and heckle the beliefs of others because of their beliefs how are they better than those they demonize?

Just some thoughts for consideration on a Wednesday morning.

AuldSoul

Gretchen956

In the judicial system the burden of proof is with the person claiming something existed (happened). The courts don't acknowledge any burden of proof on those claiming something does not exist or didn't happen. Its impossible to prove the lack of something.

So both sides of this argument (IMO) are purely academic.

Name calling is for bully's no matter what the topic, thats the thing I would like to see an end to. Logical argument should not be taken personally.

Sherry

hooberus

GeneticsThe human race cannot be decended from the restricted gene pool of 8 'post-flood' humans, much less 2 'edenic' ones!

why not?

AlmostAtheist

Oh no! Qcmbr's thread has degenerated into a thread about the [non]existence of God! How freakin' ironic is that?!?!

I guess the scripture at Romans 1: 20 is nothing butpure bunk, right? "For his INVISABLE qualitites are clearly seen from world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and godship, so that they are inexcuseable."

It's not that the scripture is bunk, Golf, it's that the scripture is just words from a man. We could argue whether he had divine inspiration to write it, but in either case the evidence is simply the words of a man. If I say the invisible influence of TetraGod over my life is what makes me whole and happy, does that make it true? Could I reasonably offer that statement as proof of Tetra's godship?

Dave

funkyderek

hooberus:

The human race cannot be decended from the restricted gene pool of 8 'post-flood' humans, much less 2 'edenic' ones!

why not?

Now hooberus, you already know the answer to that one. Observed rates of evolution are far too slow to explain all the different alleles in the human species if we are descended from two humans a trifling 6,000 years ago.

nicolaou

Creationists assert that humanity began as 2 individuals around six thousand years ago. But this cannot account for the current genetic diversity we see in humans, since two people can carry four alleles (at most) between them for any given locus (Each person has two copies of each gene one from the father, and one from the mother, each copy being called an allele.). Furthermore, Creationists assert that humanity was again narrowed down to 8 people after the Flood. Again, this runs counter to everything we see in the current genetic diversity of human beings. (Never mind every other organism on the planet.)

AuldSoul

U.S. "atheists" frequently assume that the Hebrew God of the Bible is the only God a theist can believe in. How many things that that "run counter to?"

Atheists are often actually agnostic without knowing it; they are opposed to Fundamentalists but are not actually opposed to the idea of a God. Your stated perception of Creationists and your limited scope of their beliefs betrays a flawed perception of Creationists. Fundamnetalist Christian Creationists believe as you described, but they hardly represent the majority of the world's Creationists. They are a very noisy minority.

On an unrelated topic, I need to PM you Nicolaou.

nicolaou

For the record, this atheist is fundamentally and intellectually "opposed to the idea of a god". Yes, there are many different types of Creationists, some more radical and militant than others. Some are open to reason and willing to debate in an honest and rational manner but at the end of it all they believe in creation by a superior being whether that be 6,000 years ago or even by the vehicle of evolution.

There is no Creator.

On an unrelated topic, I need to PM you Nicolaou.

Sure, you got me intrigued now.
Nic'

oldflame

What I fing odd is that those who were witnesses when they were in, had a genuine love for God but when they left the society they grew a strong hate for God as if it were Gods fault that they themselves were deceived. For years they claimed to have a accurate knowledge of scriptures and believed in Heaven and Hell , but now have lost there faith in the creator.

I have noticed that these who hate God or lost their belief in God have become bitter and angry and in turn result in bitter name calling, lashing out evil words towards those who still believe. I guess those who are atheist think that because they lost their own faith feel that it is absurd for anyone else to keep their faith in the Lord.

I also think that those who name call and are sarcastic really in truthfullness only show their real fruits. I personally do not hang with people who are sarcastic and mean towards others and I find that people who are of such do not have many friends in the world and are unhappy with themselves. I also think that many who come out of the wtbs should and need counseling. There are counselors that work specifically in this field to help those coming out of a cult.

I had some friends in Texas when I lived there who were involved in capturing those in cults and then debrainwashed them. Sometimes these guys would end up in jail usually for just a short time but when released were right back out there doing there work.

I find it sometimes very difficult to post here at times because of the anger that gets shared here, sometimes I think that because I was not fully involved in the wtbs that I lack understanding in these types of people. But after careful thinking and study I have learned and truly feel that no it cannot be because of the wtbs but it is the individual themselves who make up what and who they are. It is up to each one person to make the change, noone can change anyone.

But I agree with this thread poster, I do not like those who criticize and name calling as it does indeed chase those away that are here and who are desperate for help. I didn't think that this discussion board was about chasing away others and maybe not but it does happen and happens often. Even I have lowered my amount of postings here because of the bitterness and ugliness that comes from some of those here. I went through hell here a couple of weeks ago for merely posting a thoughtful gesture. You would have thought all hell had broke loose here, but one thing I will not do is lower myself to the level of others who act like little children without control.............

Of Late Many Here Seem To Be Preaching Aethiesm..

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