Unconditional Love-How would you describe it?

by rip van winkle 239 Replies latest members private

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  rip van winkle

  I was just reading 00Dad's post entitled Boundaries, Freedom of Choice and Codependency and the subject of unconditional love came up.

  How would you describe unconditional love. Do you think it is a feeling or an action or a little of both?

  Here's my 2 cents:

  Unconditional love is about acceptance and respect of an individuals thoughts, opinions, perspectives, behaviours and lifestyles.

  Including loving those who are sometimes unlovable.

  And the ability to separate the person from a negative action.

  And forgiving the imperfections of others as well as our own.
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  Sulla

  It is about desiring the good of the other person. The other person cannot be a means, they are an end in themselves.
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  00DAD

  RVW, great spin-off thread! This is such an important subject for both current- and ex-JWs for so many reasons. First off, as we all know, they give a lot of lip-service to love being an identifying mark of true Christians. But their form of "love" is so completely contingent on the individual's complete and total compliance to following the mind-numbingly long list of written and unwritten rules, regulations, practices, policies and procedures that what results is not love at all.

  While it may resemble "love" it is more like the reward given to a dog for its obedience to a command. The "affection" and/or approval JWs show toward one another, particularly from those in perceived positions of authority, are merely aimed at reinforcing conditioned responses.

  The fact that this "love" or approval can be and often is taken away when a congregation member "sins" is proof that JWs do NOT have true, unconditional love amongst themselves. I know, I know, they'll say that disfellowshipping is a form of discipline and shows love for the individual. That's crap, pure and simple. Often, people are cast aside and thrown out of the congregation at a time in their life when they MOST need love, understanding and support. To take all that away is unkind as well as unloving. It is very destructive.

  Don't think I'm condoning wrong behavior, because I'm not. (Let's not even get started on the fact that not everything the WT defines as "sin" is wrong!) But, as you clearly stated in the OP, there is a profound difference between loving the person and not approving of everything they do. I liked the way you worded it, " the ability to separate the person from a negative action. " Exactly!

  Although I would disagree about unconditional love necessarily including acceptance unless you mean merely accepting that others have a right to make life decisions about and for themselves. Often in pop-culture I hear the term "acceptance" used to imply agreement with any and every decision people make. On the contrary, I think it is proof of unconditional love when we continue to love and to show love to people that make decisions which we most strongly do NOT agree. That's love, unconditional love.

  Let's call it what it is, the WT uses disfellowshipping and shunning as a tool to control and get compliance from people. That's it. It's not about love, it's about control.

  Or, as I like to say, "If it's conditional, it ain't love!"

  Great thread!

  00DAD
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  Heaven

  I think you've done a good job at describing it rip. It's about not letting past indiscretions eat you up and stand in the way of you doing the right thing for someone even if they have wronged you. You do need to be careful though as some people are just plain dangerous and need to be given a wide berth. Jehovah's Witnesses are not encouraged to have unconditional love.

  (edited to remove link to video... something is screwing up big time with the linking)
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  nuthouse escapee

  Great topic RVW totally agree with your opening post.

  Sulla

  OODAD Totally agree with your post. We can disagree or not be happy about a person's decision but it doesn't mean punishing them by withdrawing our affection.

  To me, true love means accepting the person for who they are, respecting their rights as an individual and not thinking that we need to change them. How many marriages have failed because someone wanted to 'tweak' their mate to fit their ideal. Bottom line for me is respect for individuality and to love & respect someone as they are, if we can't do that then it is not unconditional love.
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  00DAD

  NE, perfect, just perfect! I love the way you put it, " We can disagree or not be happy about a person's decision but it doesn't mean punishing them by withdrawing our affection. "

  The withdrawing of affection is purely a manipulative move on the part of a Control Freak. In this case, the CF is the WTBTS.

  Let's review: It's a cult!
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  rip van winkle

  Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for not quoting a corny line from an old movie!!!!!!

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  Sulla- I like your thought: " It is about desiring the good of the other person." It is true. Sometimes we only see things through our own vantage point.When we look to see the good- we usually find it!

  00Dad- Everything you said in this thread I agree with. You have expressed very well my own sentiments and realization about how harmful the act of shunning is. And yes when I speak of acceptance I am speaking of an individuals right to make their own decisions. Everything in your response to my question, relating to the WTS interpretation of love is so warped and so hurtful to so many. " Often, people are cast aside and thrown out of the congregation at a time in their life when they MOST need love, understanding and support. To take all that away is unkind as well as unloving. It is very destructive." I just found out that 2 were recently disfellowshipped. They both have families in the org. and it breaks my heart.

  Heaven-" It's about not letting past indiscretions eat you up and stand in the way of you doing the right thing for someone even if they have wronged you." I think this is probably the hardest hurdle- to still show love regardless of the hurt you have suffered and to get past it. It's definitely hard to live up to! And that's where forgiveness comes in.

  NE- like 00Dad I agree!!!-" it doesn't mean punishing them by withdrawing our affection."
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  Farkel

  Call me stupid, but I think unconditional love is self-describing.

  Farkel
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  ziddina

  "Unconditional love" = either stupidity or co-dependence.

  Note - I'm not coming at the subject from a "Jehovah's Witness" nor a "Christian" angle. I'm approaching it from a "real-world" angle - as in...

  What if you found out your wife/husband/kid was a serial killer?

  What if your wife/husband/kid was irretrievably lost to substance abuse?

  What if your wife/husband/kid had run over and killed someone while driving under the influence? After you - and others - had warned them numerous times that they needed to get help??

  What if your wife/husband/kid had cheated numerous people out of their life savings??

  And I could go on to mention getting the neighbor's daughter pregnant - or molesting underage children, lying about peoples' actions, and so on.

  I would not have "unconditional love" for ANYone or thing on the face of this planet. Nor would I expect someone else to have such "love" for me, as such "love" appears to be an epic FAIL when it comes to setting BOUNDARIES - and to respecting them.

  Sometimes a person needs to figuratively "hit a brick wall" - and unconditional love sounds far too much like co-dependency and enabling to be of any use.

  Zid
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  Sulla

  Well, ziddina, a child who was irretrievably lost to drugs could still be loved unconditionally. You would still desire his good, his well-being. Obviously, you wouldn't be able to support him in his habit because that would be acting against what is good; in this case, ending his dependency on drugs. Same thing with a husband who is a murderer. A wife couldn't be near him because it is not safe, but that doesn't mean she stops desiring his good.

  People often confuse unconditional love with this idea of enabling. That is more nearly the opposite of love, since by your weakness, you would be harming the person you claim to love.

  Related: the JWs may genuinely think that the good of those who leave the religion is that they return. However, that's not what shunning is really about.