Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

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  Confession

  I see an interesting distinction in this debate...

  It's one thing for people to debate the pros and cons of a nation providing healthcare to its citizens. It is another to indignantly declare that everyone should have all their medical bills paid for as a basic, human right.

  Believe me, I know what it's like to be without insurance, and I know what it's like to owe an enormous amount of money to hospitals and doctors. But I do not believe that simply because I was born, that someone out there owes me anything.

  I definitely believe in a safety net for those who really need it. But there must be some way to provide for those in genuine need while ensuring that abusers do NOT continue to abuse. Someone suggested only about3% abuse the system. I'd love to get better information on this; I will wager that it is enormously higher than that.

  If we as a Society think it's a good idea to provide medical coverage for all of our citizens, then perhaps we should. I happen to feel that education, for instance, is something that should be made available to all citizens. If someone is offered a decent college education--and fails to utilize it--then (as far as i'm concerned) they're on their own. But I would only be willing to vote for something like this in the event that this government goes through a pretty gigantic slash and burn process of eliminating the pork. I mean really taking the chainsaw to it.

  I don't think people realize that the notion of government "providing for" or "taking care of" everyone is what has so often led to disaster. The more they provide for you, the more they start expecting of you. For those who believe government is here to provide for us, are you just as adamant about preservation of all the personal rights we now enjoy? The more they do for us, the less freedom we may enjoy--and the more we pay in taxes. The slippery slope leads to a situation in which we are all dependent on the government instead of ourselves.
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  chachasmum

  The name of the game is greed and waste.
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  stillconcerned

  yeah...what Confession said....

  kdn
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  fairchild

  Stillconcerned, no I didn' t know there a is rest of the story, I thought the person who sued won, no? But one way or the other, my point is that it has become way too easy to start a lawsuit, and it does affect the cost of medical care, we definitely can't deny that.

  And speaking of law suits, I hope that the person who tried to scam Wendy's is in jail forever. There is just another example of how the ease with which a person can sue affects the ordinary man in the street. Many Wendy's employees were temporary out of work because business was down so badly after the finger joke.
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  daniel-p

  Couldnt have said it better, Confession... so I won't.
  
  
  edit: dammit I knew I should have read that last sentence before I replied. Well I disagree with you on your "slippery slope" reasoning because socialized medicine CAN work - there are many countries to prove it, hoever, it would not be best thing in a highly capitilistic economy such as we have here.
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  fairchild

  Confession,

  I truly believe that it is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to receive medical care when needed, but I KNOW for a FACT that some people DIE because they do not have health insurance. A hospital can not refuse basic care to anyone, but we all know that in many places around here the rule goes "When you don't have insurance then we are sorry, but we can't find anything wrong with you". It DOES happen, and it is not right. Not by a long shot. There are also many, many, MANY people who feel ill but put it off to go to the doctor because they don't have health insurance. Many illnesses (cancer for example) could be cured if they find it soon enough. But when you don't have insurance and you're sick, you're often going to wait to go see a doctor until it is TOO LATE.

  I am a person who has been trying really hard to get some kind of medical aid. I am currently having heart problems and had to stop going to tests because my medical bills are going through the roof. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, which is a very real possibility in my case, then I do believe that the system is to blame for it. I have done what I could, I have given them every penny I had, I have given them all of my savings, and now I have so many more medical bills to pay off that seeking further treatment just isn't an option for me. I believe that, as a human being, I deserve more than that. Oh, and I pay my taxes, just like everyone else.
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  Rabbit

  LDH

  So then it comes down to this---what are you willing to sacrifice in order to get that needed education? And, why should I have to pay more for your health care? This is not a communist society, it's a capitalist society

  "Well, aren't we special?" ~ Church Lady

  I know it's really hard to look so very far down at all the 'little, poor people' that for some reason just took jobs, that had no insurance benefits. "Interview o-ver !" e-yew...! Insurance industry, huh ? Sales, I'll bet.

  I have had insurance most of my life. I don't now, my COBRA ran out this summer. Because, I have epilepsy, I am uninsurable. This was not my fault, I've worked all my life and have some college under my belt. As you said, Lisa, in your out-of-touch way...you know everybody isn't a 'lazy welfare bum' trying to work the system. Likely you'll agree that there are programs out there to 'catch those who call thru the cracks' ?

  Texas has one, it called the Texas Risk Pool. It's 'easy' to qualify, too ! If you have 'denial' letters from 3 ins. companies -- you're in. Well, almost...I almost forgot again how 'helpful' they are. For me, being financially responsible, I could choose the very cheapest plan available -- almost $1,000.00/month. But, wait -- that's not all folks -- with that you also get -- a $5,000.00/year DEDUCTIBLE ! See, during 1st 5 months of 'coverage', you pay $10,000.00 just for insurance -- before they start to pay.

  Why in the world -- with a 'safety net' like that can anyone w h i n e about affordable insurance ???

  Just 'get a better job' or "fix" that problem with "a little education," huh ? Can you spell 'd i s c o n n e c t e d' from reality ?

  Keep in mind "I" am a losing proposition for an insurance co. I've had 5 surgeries in 1.5 years and my Meds alone are close to $1,000/month. I am working again, broke, but working. What concerns me is this 'safety net' is supposed to cover everyone, right ? For instance, even if you have HIV/AIDS, you qualify ! Oh, joy ! Tell me...how many people who have AIDS are in any physical shape to work ? And pay even the cheapest policy ? Insurance + deductible = $17,000.00, then 20% co-pay.

  America should 'buy' a basic insurance policy for all it's citizens -- from insurance companies who can administrate it. There should be some kind of medical 'tort' reform. Doctors who do screw up need to be punished to make sure 3rd rate "Yugo" medicine is never encouraged or practiced.

  America was attacked on 9/11 and we went to war and are spending $50(?)billion/day to ensure that we "protect American citizens." I happen to agree with that by the way. I only bring it up to make a point. 3,000 people died then and we went to war. Many thousands of people suffer and die everyday, because of the lack of proper medical care.

  I think Americans deserve protection, the government should insure us all and should go about it with the same fervor & purpose that they have in going after the people who attacked us.

  Cadillacs and Yugos are cars...comparing them to the kind of health care 'some' deserve & other don't...is shameful. What price car you drive or how big your house is or even the jewelery you can buy, because, of your financial situation is one thing...cancer, heart disease or mental illnesses, etc. are quite another.

  Anything else is un-American, in my opinion.

  Flyin'

  It is a myth that only lazy deadbeats don't have health insurance. Most of the people in this country who have no or inadequate coverage are working class people.

  Thank you. As one working chronic disease sufferer to another...you tell 'em.

  On the other hand...there's 5 fingers... (to lighten the moment)

  Rabbit ( of the takes a vacation, only in his mind sometimes)
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  fairchild

  This thread has been viewed 619 times. Between the Canadians and people from other countries who have clicked on this thread, and the people who have clicked on it several times, either to read or to respond, I think it is safe to say that about 400 different Americans have clicked on this thread, I think that's a fair estimate.

  Out of those approximate 400 Americans, TWO people have stated that they can not get insured because they suffer from long term illnesses (GoingGoingGone and Rabbit). SEVERAL people have stated that they do NOT have any kind of health insurance.

  The numbers speak for themselves, do they not?

  I usually stay away from discussions in which both parties have strong opinions, but when it comes to health insurance, I want my voice to be heard, because the lack of health coverage and the ridiculously high price of medical care are a constant source of stress to me (and to MANY Americans, I am sure)
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  FlyingHighNow

  You don't know what it does to your soul until you have to beg for food, clothes, shelter, or medical care..The only people in America who don't think we have a crisis are those who have enough cash to pay as they go, or have never had a chronic or acute illness that drains them of every cent they have.

  I recall in the 80's when HIV first became public, Many previously middle to high income persons became so ill they could not work and were forced to rely on the county hospitals. Soon there were articles in the xxxxxx paper about the way the poor are treated at the local county hospitals. These people ( the previously middle class patients and reporters ) were shocked. Well, the poor were not shocked. They were used to being treated like cattle and abused. It was just something you had to do to get medical care. A lot of America does not know that the poor are frequently verbally abused(and worse) and offered far less choices for medical care. They are often treated less than human.

  This is true. And there but for the grace of God they go.

  I have been to a hospital with insurance and treated like gold. Then returned to the same hospital a year later with no insurance and be treated like I was scum, after just getting out of intensive care, by the same staff that treated me well before. The difference in their attitude was definitely due to my uninsured status.

  It's easy to be smug if you have health insurance, are fairly healthy and have had no problems with the medical care system and/or insurance companies.
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  blondie

  I have been in both situations, without healthcare and betting I stay healthy, and with a fairly good policy and grateful because illness has struck Blondie's house in a big way. But I see the handwriting on the wall with the government requiring us to pay more and more and social security and medicare looking like it will be gone with the wind by the time we qualify. So I do what I can each day and give input to the people who make the decisions on healthcare. It is interesting that the ones who vote on such matters always seem to have good health insurance, voted to themselves.

  Blondie