Growing up a gay Jehovah's Witness (My Life Story)

by m0nk3y 263 Replies latest jw experiences

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  m0nk3y

  Actually northern girl don't you break your own bibles good advice of ..

  judge no one concerning the sabbath and abstain from blood.

  monk3y.
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  badolputtytat

  Just my opinion ... I think the whole "privacy" issue has blown to pieces here. It is not as if Monk3y posted Ng's home address and bra-size. As he stated, he started this post to share something, and in return he was sent a message that was based on harmful, judgemental beliefs.

  I personally don't see where any trust was broken. Had he invited a personal message specifically from someone and then posted THAT on the board, I could almost see the problem. If someone shares a secret with you, and you post that, I can see the problem. If an elder had come on here and sent any one of us a warning that we should not be on this site, and that this was for apostates only, any one would have posted that message on the board.

  I myself have risked sharing private information with other's via "in-box" and should they wish to bring me harm I suppose they would be within their rights to do so.

  Monk3y: as I said before, you are fortunate for having survived this. I admire the strength it takes to get through it and be able to talk about it with such passion.
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  window man

  josh im proud of you look at it this way the borg controls by making you feel guilty for who you are hate, fear,depression these are things of the past you are asurviver move on be the best you can be hold your head up the light has gotten brighter in Gods do time we will see all what he has promised us agape windowman
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  teejay

  You're a cool dude m0nk3y. Witty, intelligent. I wouldn't have a problem hanging out with you AND your friends, although not all of my personal preferences jibe with yours... if you know what I mean.

  I'm glad that were able, like many of us, to survive your upbringing in the Organization. I can only imagine what extra burdens you bore because of your sexual orientation and the rough waters you were forced to navigate all alone and you finally found solid ground.

  For many of us, life in the Watchtower Society left a legacy that we will probably never outlive. I know I won't. But like the dude in A Beautiful Mind, we've accepted the reality that the ghosts of our past live right along with us – helping define who we are now. And although they may yet resurface from time to time, they no longer hold the power over us they once did. Glad you're here.
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  m0nk3y

  I recall an elder making a horrible statement during one of our book studies. We were discussing plagues and he said gay people were disgusting and diserved to get Aids. His opinion made me absolutely sick to my stomach. Actually his comment for the very first step to me leaving the Organiztion; it showed so clearly the absolute lack of love this religion had

  I do remember having one of the elders saying the same kind of thing when they came and saw me, he was getting quite angry because I had said I was born gay. After saying that gay people that got AIDS deserved to die because they brought AIDS into this world I said to him that was a disgusting thing to say and perhaps he should go and research a little more about the origins of AIDS and not label a whole people with it. I was clearly digusted with him and my mum agreed to what I was saying at the time to. I was glad that this came up after I had become alot weller, it gave me the strength to actually fight for my rights. I had also said that perhaps one day Jehovah might accept gay people because times have changed, maybe in the new system parts of the new scrolls to be opened up would open up new understandings, surprisingly the other elder said thats a possability. (I think he was rather upset over the way the other elder acted as well)

  After he said that it kind of strengthend my faith to fight a bit longer .. only to realise afterwards that it was a fight that wouldn't be and couldn't be won .. why would I want to win it ?

  monk3y
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  Prisca

  m0nk3y,

  Could I ask a question about your dressing in drag? I'd be interested to know if your ideas about it are the same as other drag queens too.

  Firstly, why? Why do you feel the need to dress up as women? Do you feel as if you are a woman on the inside? Would you like to be a woman? Do you feel you are a different character when you are in drag, or are you still Josh?

  Just a few questions, I hope you don't mind me asking. Just trying to understand you.
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  m0nk3y

  I don't mind answering that at all .. I think I might start another thread about it though ( I don't wanna change the feel of this post anymore than it has.) .. most people proberbly won't be interested but I guess it can be a nioce fluffy thread

  But thanks for asking Prisca .. the new thread will be up in a minute or two

  Josh
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  refiners fire

  Big Al. I simply couldnt bear it if you didnt look in the other thread and thus get an opportunity to respond to me, so Im posting here too.

  Thank you brother for your musings upon inequivalent equivalents. THey sure helped me see the dimness of my own intellect in comparison with your own.Truly, I am one of the “dim ones” who cannot "grasp" simple logic. Lol. Now,moving onto the subject of clarity in grasping simple things let me refer to matters I raised over on the other thread about something you said. In order that you will not be too sunblinded by the low wattage “reasoning” (for want of a better word) of a mind ( of sorts) belonging to such as myself, let me repaint the picture of what has transpired in that conversation, so far, clearly for you….

  You said:

  “ When a poster consistently displays this attitude, they're either a troll or braindead. Take your pick. AlanF….”

  Now Al, I hope you are big enough to admit that, when you said that, you were thinking about Northern Girl. Look into your memory Al, for a moment and recall what you were visualizing at the time you said that. It is a picture of Northern Girl. I know this Al, but do you? That is the question.

  I hope you admit this Al, I would hate to think you were the type who deludes himself when viewing things retrospectively, a man who doesn’t remember what his own motives were, a man who forgets he ever held certain intents when they no longer fit his current agenda. Youre not that kind of man are you? Good, I thought not. So, you called Northern girl names…. Next, I picked you up on it and posted:

  “You know, big al, I have certainly noticed that for a guy who is regarded as such a bigshot in the art of getting people out of the dubs you sure resort to name calling pretty quick. hardly a method of endearing a person to you so as to be receptive to your message. A smart guy like you should know that the only consequence of your calling people names is that they will fortify themselves against you. barriers up. I think Steve Hassan would agree with me that insulting a dub to their face is scarcely a workeable method of exiting them. lol……”

  Now Al, your next reply post is quite interesting because rather than admit that, yes, like a schoolyard brat, you were calling her childish names, you posted that you actually had a cunning PLAN in calling her names. You were not being childish and insulting, rather you were applying a carefully worked out, brilliantly conceived strategy of EXIT COUNCELLING that involved verbally abusing people!! You said:

  “ My interest is not only in getting braindead JWs to wake up, but in showing lurkers how braindead a "fortified" JW can be. It often works. It even sometimes works on the braindead Dub herself. Many lurkers are bothered at first with painfully straight talk -- Lord knows, they don't get it from the Watchtower -- but after awhile they notice that the "JW with barriers up" truly is braindead in the sense that they're steadfastly refusing to think. Then they get bothered about being in a religion that produces so many braindead people. Can you understand this?….”

  So you were actually calling her names ( "painfully straight talk" ) to reach Lurker dubs and make them THINK, (making others “think” appears to be a mission that you have) Those peering upon the board in secret must think! Those ones in pain must apply logic so as to be exited from the cult! Wake them up even if you have to beat them up to do it! Dammit! Anyway… That is why you were calling her names. To shock those lurkers into seeing that she was a mind control robot. That’s what you said Al, so that must be what you meant. Then I asked for some evidence that this method of insulting people to get others out of the cult worked:

  “I sure can, Youre insulting a dub on the board so that other dubs will feel moved to post here and will feel duly welcome. Is that right? No? ok...Now, You say this “method” you’ve applied of insulting one dub poster to free the mind of another dub poster works eh?? You should publish on the subject and get Steve Hassan to advocate it at his seminars. Id be most interested, Al , in hearing from some ex dub who realized the fallacy of the Watchtower because you were calling another dub names.”

  With me still Al? Good. Now a published paper demonstrating that your technique of insulting a dub to get other dubs to exit the cult would be great Al. Even a decent essay with some graphs demonstrating the success of the method would be fine. Better still, a couple of testimonies from people you have exited using this amazing method.

  Wadda you say gonzo??
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  teejay

  I hope you admit this Al, I would hate to think you were the type who deludes himself when viewing things retrospectively, a man who doesn’t remember what his own motives were, a man who forgets he ever held certain intents when they no longer fit his current agenda. Youre not that kind of man are you? I hope you admit this Al, I would hate to think you were the type who deludes himself when viewing things retrospectively, a man who doesn’t remember what his own motives were, a man who forgets he ever held certain intents when they no longer fit his current agenda. Youre not that kind of man are you? – refiners fire

  Thank you, RF. Thank you very much.

  Here you have highlighted what is to me the single most unappealing characteristic of too many ex-JWs.

  Most of us were once JWs. We were JWs for many years. We believed the all the bullshit that we now despise. But we still believed it BACK THEN. It's part of our history and therefore part of who we are now. Now that the lights have gone on, many of us resort all-too-easily to thinking that we are so much better than those still caught in the system we've left that it's sickening. (I mean people like YOU, AlanF.)

  How it is that people who were once JUST LIKE the so-called "trolls" that arrive here can now be so condescending? I think there's a word for that. People like you need to get off your high horse and get a grip. Ask somebody. Go down to the store and buy some humility. If that doesn't work, find a quiet place, sit, and remember what it was like as a Dub.
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  AlanF

  Little RF said:

  : Big Al. I simply couldnt bear it if you didnt look in the other thread and thus get an opportunity to respond to me, so Im posting here too.

  Sorry to disappoint. I'm posting here, too.

  : Thank you brother for your musings upon inequivalent equivalents. THey sure helped me see the dimness of my own intellect in comparison with your own.

  I think not.

  : Truly, I am one of the "dim ones" who cannot "grasp" simple logic.

  Out of the mouth of babes.

  : Lol.

  No doubt with beady little eyes darting in space.

  : Now,moving onto the subject of clarity in grasping simple things let me refer to matters I raised over on the other thread about something you said. In order that you will not be too sunblinded by the low wattage "reasoning" (for want of a better word) of a mind ( of sorts) belonging to such as myself, let me repaint the picture of what has transpired in that conversation, so far, clearly for you...

  This is going to be good.

  :: When a poster consistently displays this attitude, they're either a troll or braindead. Take your pick. AlanF...

  : Now Al, I hope you are big enough to admit that, when you said that, you were thinking about Northern Girl. Look into your memory Al, for a moment and recall what you were visualizing at the time you said that. It is a picture of Northern Girl. I know this Al, but do you? That is the question.

  Of course, you twit. Do you think I'm as dumb as you? The subject of the thread and my post was Northern Girl.

  But she was not the only thing I was thinking of. I've dealt with so many trolls, trollish JWs and braindead JWs online that this is almost automatic. The larger picture is always in my mind, but what comes out is triggered by a specific situation, such as the comments Northern Girl made.

  : I hope you admit this Al, I would hate to think you were the type who deludes himself when viewing things retrospectively, a man who doesn’t remember what his own motives were, a man who forgets he ever held certain intents when they no longer fit his current agenda. Youre not that kind of man are you? Good, I thought not.

  Small minds think in small terms. I hope you understand now, Little RF.

  : ... Next, I picked you up on it and posted:

  : "You know, big al, I have certainly noticed that for a guy who is regarded as such a bigshot in the art of getting people out of the dubs you sure resort to name calling pretty quick. hardly a method of endearing a person to you so as to be receptive to your message. A smart guy like you should know that the only consequence of your calling people names is that they will fortify themselves against you. barriers up. I think Steve Hassan would agree with me that insulting a dub to their face is scarcely a workeable method of exiting them. lol"

  See the other thread for my retort.

  : Now Al, your next reply post is quite interesting because rather than admit that, yes, like a schoolyard brat, you were calling her childish names,

  Not names, Little RF: descriptions of fact.

  : you posted that you actually had a cunning PLAN in calling her names. You were not being childish and insulting, rather you were applying a carefully worked out, brilliantly conceived strategy of EXIT COUNCELLING that involved verbally abusing people!!

  Your itty bitty brain has difficulty dealing with such a concept, I know. Nevertheless, it often works.

  : You said:

  : " My interest is not only in getting braindead JWs to wake up, but in showing lurkers how braindead a "fortified" JW can be. It often works. It even sometimes works on the braindead Dub herself. Many lurkers are bothered at first with painfully straight talk -- Lord knows, they don't get it from the Watchtower -- but after awhile they notice that the "JW with barriers up" truly is braindead in the sense that they're steadfastly refusing to think. Then they get bothered about being in a religion that produces so many braindead people. Can you understand this?..."

  : So you were actually calling her names

  Descriptions of fact, Little RF.

  : ( "painfully straight talk" ) to reach Lurker dubs and make them THINK, (making others "think" appears to be a mission that you have)

  Precisely. You can't argue with success. It only works, of course, with people who can truly reason. Many cannot, and the plan doesn't work. But again, a cultist hard headed enough to come on a hostile discussion board should be assumed to have some ability to reason. Otherwise they would take the Watchtower Society's advice and keep their heads buried in sand.

  : Those peering upon the board in secret must think! Those ones in pain must apply logic so as to be exited from the cult! Wake them up even if you have to beat them up to do it! Dammit!

  Sometimes they do. Try thinking in broad terms, Little RF. That may help.

  : Anyway... That is why you were calling her names.

  Actually, calling a cat a "cat".

  : To shock those lurkers into seeing that she was a mind control robot. That’s what you said Al, so that must be what you meant.

  You understood that part quite well. Good job!

  : Then I asked for some evidence that this method of insulting people to get others out of the cult worked:

  : ...

  : Wadda you say gonzo??

  See the other thread, bozo.

  AlanF