Where is Jehovah?

by His Excellency 121 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    How would the world look any different if this chatty god of yours didn't exist Tammy?

    Real answer: there would be no world.

    Speculative answer that supposes the world would exist with or without Him: No one would seek Him, hear Him, have hope or peace or strength in Him; no one would think to ask for his help, and no one would receive that help. There would still be wars; man would still inflict suffering upon his fellow man and all of that, just under a different excuse. For some people, the world would feel exactly the same. For others, there would be great loss. Some would have done even worse to themselves and others, without the laws that He gave.

    We do not have that world. But if we did (as you believe that we do), then you would have to admit that everything has occurred exactly the way that man chose for it to occur.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty
    Real answer: there would be no world.

    That's nonsense. I thought you claimed to have respect for science.

    Reading through the rest of your answer it is an admission that the world would be no different at all.

    You would still think he did exist and would still convince yourself you were hearing voices. Millions would still worship in their various ways and fight over who was right.

    Whether or not she/he actually exists makes not a whit of difference to the real world.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    This is an assumption. A couple of assumptions actually. That a) referencing occurrances in the past means that He believed everything written was both infallable AND true AND from God. But this cannot be true, since in the OT, there are references to 'lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely', and Christ, Himself is written to have said 'woe to you scribes'.

    If they had the truth, then there would have been no need for THE Truth to come and teach. So if you want to know the truth, then look to Christ. Not the OT.

    Either Christ accepted it or he didn't, there is no get out clause here for someone that was all knowing. He had a perfect opportunity to call Jehovah out on his bullsh1t and he never did; I guess he wouldn't given that he is the perfect image of the genocidal god. The fact is you and many other Christian religions are drawing your faith from the same source, just the fact that you have your own interpretation of that source - which differs greatly from so many other mainstream Christian faiths - that only parts of the bible are true, proves my point. How can you definitively prove that your right, and they are wrong? Gods message is unclear and confusing, and that is why there are so many interpretations and problems that stem from this confusion about what god wants.

    If they had the truth, then there would have been no need for THE Truth to come and teach. So if you want to know the truth, then look to Christ. Not the OT.

    “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

    "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

    “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17)

    "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment. " ( Luke 22:37 )

    "It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true." ( John 8:17 )

    Christ looked at the OT as truth, the OT was good enough for him, why isn't it for you?

    I still don't know what you are talking about here.

    Perhaps this will jog your memory.

    "When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them" (Deuteronomy 7;1,2). Again, in the book of Deuteronomy we read, "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them … as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee" (20:16,17).

  • tec
    tec

    That's nonsense. I thought you claimed to have respect for science.

    I do. But life came to be... FROM God. No God, no life.

    Reading through the rest of your answer it is an admission that the world would be no different at all.
    You would still think he did exist and would still convince yourself you were hearing voices. Millions would still worship in their various ways and fight over who was right.
    Whether or not she/he actually exists makes not a whit of difference to the real world.

    If He did not exist, no one would believe that He did. No one would have sought Him out to begin with. Then there would have been no Christ in the flesh and no Christ now in the Spirit.

    This world would still have its wars and atrocities, as it does now, because that is in man. But no one would have the hope and peace and love that God and Christ give, and no one would look to them to learn and to show that love, hope, mercy and peace to others. So yes, there would be a difference in this world, and it would not be for the best.

    This world IS run by man. The Kingdom of Christ though... is no part of this world. Nor are those who belong to Him now. These are the ones who follow Him... not governments, and religions, and wars, and killing, etc, etc. When that Kingdom comes, it will be different than what is run by man now.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty
    No God, no life

    Medieval superstitious nonsense.

    If He did not exist, no one would believe that He did.

    Why not?

    When that Kingdom comes, it will be different than what is run by man now.

    How very Watchtower of you.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    If He did not exist, no one would believe that He did.

    Is the same true of fairies, mermaids, leprachauns, and the loch ness monster?

  • cofty
    cofty

    cantleave knocks it out the park for a home-run ...................................

  • tec
    tec

    Either Christ accepted it or he didn't, there is no get out clause here for someone that was all knowing.

    He corrected parts from it. Such as the law moses gave regarding divorce. Christ said moses gave that law because the israelites hearts were hard... but the TRUTH was... anyone who divorces except for adultery, commits adultery. He also 'woed to the scribes'. And in the OT itself, the law is spoken of having been handled by the lying pen of the scribes. So tell me how these things jive with your... either he accepted it or he didn't?

    He had a perfect opportunity to call Jehovah out on his bullsh1t and he never did.

    He came as the Truth, to show the Truth of God. He came as the Word of God. Not to point to something else as being the word of God.

    It is very simple. Look to Christ to see God. Not the Israelites (often hard-hearted, who needed the law written on stone tablets because the law could not be written upon their hearts) Not the law (lying pen of the scribes, and also given due to those hard hearts). Not Moses (who prophecies that we are to listen to the One who comes after him) Not the scriptures (which make no such statement about themselves). Not the bible (which is not even one book, much less claiming to be inerrant)

    Just Christ.

    The fact is you and many other Christian religions are drawing your faith from the same source,

    The fact is that many are doing no such thing. Else there would not be so many divisions.

    just the fact that you have your own interpretation of that source - which differs from so many other mainstream Christian faiths - that only parts of the bible are true, proves my point. How can you definitively prove that your right, and they are wrong.

    I cannot prove it.

    I can back it up. Christ is the Truth, the Image, the Word of God. God said to listen to Him. I mean those, and a few others, are plain as day. But apparently too simple for some people to accept. "By their fruits", is one way you could recognize them. Love, mercy, forgiveness, etc.

    But Christ is the one who will gather those who belong to Him, and turn away those who claim to belong to Him, but whom HE never knew. Until then, one can only follow Him (or whatever else they choose to follow, and leave the rest TO Him)

    Gods message is unclear and confusing, and that is why there are so many interpretations and problems that stem from this confusion about what god wants.

    God's message is clear. Listen to my Son.

    That Son states Himself why there are so many who do not come to Him (because men loved the darkness, and refuse to come into the light so that the darkness in them would be revealed).

    There are also so many false christs out there (wts); calling people to them. Far too many people listen to them instead. I was one of those people. When i ended my study with the wts, I went and searched and searched for what religion had/was the truth. But of course... Christ is the Truth, and one need only follow Him. People also twist the law to justify what they want to do. If one is so busy lying even to oneself, then how hard must it be for them to hear/recognize the Truth, when He calls?

    Christ looked at the OT as truth, the OT was good enough for him, why isn't it for you?

    A) I have never been under the law. The law is a tutor to Christ. I am under Him, and His teachings.

    B) Christ did not look at the OT as truth. You have no reason to think this. He corrected things from the law, and revealed the Truth instead. "You have heard it said, but i tell you now..."

    C) Christ is the TRUTH. So how would he have looked at something else as the truth? Something that He did correct. Something that itself states 'the lying pen of the scribes has handled the law falsely'? He did not tell people to look at the law. He told people to come to HIM for life. In fact, he stated that clearly. "You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life, but these are the scriptures that testify to ME, and yet you refuse to come to ME for Life."

    D) The OT is not one book.

    E) Translations and copying, etc, are not inerrant. (again, woe to you scribes)

    Perhaps this will jog your memory.

    Do you think that those are the first or last instance that someone used God's name to demand that others go to war and utterly destroy one's enemies? How much of that was true, how much was exaggerated, how much was based on what had been done to them or was threatened as being done to them as well? How much was merely a product of the brutality of the times and choices that man had made up to that point?

    But again, if you want to know the Truth, look at Christ. Look at what He taught. By word and by deed. He did not teach against mercy, but rather he taught to show mercy. He did not teach anyone to go to war; just the opposite. He did not teach to curse one's enemies, but to bless them, to clothe or feed them if they were in need.

    He is the Truth of His Father. His teachings, He learned from His Father. His words, taught by His Father.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    Why not?

    Because there would have been nothing for us to seek to begin with. Why develop a yearning for something that is non-existant? If you say it developed as part of our evolution or pattern thinking, whatever, well that implies a fundamntal flaw in the human species, that it cannot survive without delusion of some sort.

    How very Watchtower of you.

    Never baptized a jw, remember? Besides, you did not teach that as an evangelical as well?

    Is the same true of fairies, mermaids, leprachauns, and the loch ness monster?

    Legends and such have some sort of a source... and then can be built upon from there.

    But a purely natural species... developing this need to seek a 'supernatural' being that does not exist? Strange to me. Not just one tribe either, but every tribe and culture known to man, has sought out a creator/spirit/god/godess(s) from as far back as we can see. I know there are theories on it, but I find them to be unlikely.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    tec "Because there would have been nothing for us to seek to begin with. Why develop a yearning for something that is non-existant? If you say it developed as part of our evolution or pattern thinking, whatever, well that implies a fundamntal flaw in the human species, that it cannot survive without delusion of some sort."

    This would appear to be the case. Unlike other animals we have a highly developed imagination which gives us the ability to contemplate our own demise. This same ability allows us to create a way to circumnavigate death - in our mind.

    It could be that the Achilles heel in the human race is our overly imaginative mind. It has enabled us to re-shape the world we live in and give us an abundance of choice and pleasure. Ultimately, as a race, it could be our undoing.

    Peace

    Trevor

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