by Seeker4 106 Replies latest jw friends
I can't help but think that in an indirect way, much of this downsizing is directly related to the tax problems of Jerry Lee Lewis' first cousin, Jimmy Swaggert.
Recall that shortly after the Watchtower filed a brief as a "friend of the court" in this case, holy spirit moved them to the "simplification" that made assembly food and Watchtower literature available freely with donations to the "world-wide work" graciously accepted.
Nothing has financially been the same since.
tms
I can't help but think that in an indirect way, much of this downsizing is directly related to the tax problems of Jerry Lee Lewis' first cousin, Jimmy Swaggert. Recall that shortly after the Watchtower filed a brief as a "friend of the court" in this case, holy spirit moved them to the "simplification" that made assembly food and Watchtower literature available freely with donations to the "world-wide work" graciously accepted. Nothing has financially been the same since.
They could have simply continued to charge for everything and paid sales taxes as well; if they had, they'd still be riding high on the hog and wouldn't be making all these cost cutting changes that are simply driving more Dubs away. But the Tower has an almost psychotic aversion to rendering unto Caesar, that they'd sooner die than pay taxes.
Stephanus "They could have simply continued to charge for everything and paid sales taxes as well; if they had, they'd still be riding high on the hog and wouldn't be making all these cost cutting changes that are simply driving more Dubs away. But the Tower has an almost psychotic aversion to rendering unto Caesar, that they'd sooner die than pay taxes. "
I certainly thought so at the time, especially since the percentage, whatever it was would simply have been passed on to the "spiritually-thirsty ones."
Nothing ruined the mood of a good Bible discussion like the anti-climactic panhandling for money "for the world-wide work."
Although a pioneer and elder during the years of all that "simplification", I never could bring myself to ask for a donation. It was absolutely against my nature. I simply featured the literature less, used tracts more to start studies, and if it went far enough, gave the householder a "gift" of the study book.
I think the new "donation arrangement" in light of the Swaggert court case was the beginnning of current financial decline for the Watchtower. It was a poorly thought out decision, which now has life-changing implications for thousands of Bethelites.
It put the current Watchtower leaders directly at odds with Charles Taze Russell who said "we will never beg for money."
tms
Look what the retirement plan was for the R&F! Why should it be different for the bethelites? The end is so close why worry about it?
I have an aunt that lives with her daughter and here dubber son who is separated form his wife, and they have nothing because they did not save a dime, not a penny for retirement, these bethelites have nothing and some who put their lives into it will have no retirement, not even social security. But these people looked down on us, they were the ones who were closer to "god" as it were, now that the sky is falling chicken little wants a little sympathy? Well not from me, I have a cousin in bethel, he married a bethel Pilipino, and she was the person who took care of Franz when he was "out of it" and if they get booted, even though they are nice people, I have no sympathy, Remember they look at us as people who just do not get it, who have been misled by satans system blablabla. So when the end of the world does not work out for these people with their heads in the sand, It reminds me of a Bronx tale, where the kid tells the Italian mob boss he was sad when Mickey mantle cried, and he replied, you were sad? do you think for one min, that Mickey would give a crap if your dad lost his job driving a bus and lost his home? Mickey don't give a crap about you, why should you give a crap about Mickey mantle?
This thinking sums up my feeling for bethelites, They look down on people like me, some make fun. most look at us and shake their heads like we were just sentenced to 20 years for raping a 9 year old.
I had a partner for 12 years that was a dubber, he would leave me on the job to run to the meetings, I worked and saved for years to be semi retired now. most of these people have gotten their reward, the feeling of being special "gods chosen" but you know when you are sixty that does not pay the electric bill
most of these people have gotten their reward, the feeling of being special "gods chosen" but you know when you are sixty that does not pay the electric bill
True enough....but I still have some pity for these people. They are going to be finding out right quick that they've been living a fantasy. Jehovah isn't going to do squat for any of them as the Bethel higher ups circle the wagons and make sure to take care of themselves. The meek don't inherit the earth, they get taken advantage of and then discarded like a used condom when they are no longer needed.
surely they should be rejoicing that the 'work' is being downsized and the 'END' is ever closer
juni asked: Mary - Did you change your avatar? Is that an artist's pic?
I did change it.....the other one was distracting me little Gumbers too much. He was focusing on physical, instead of spiritual things. This is the picture of that painting The Scream.....I just felt like that after my dad had his stroke........I'll change it back one day in the not-too-distant-future.
Stephanus said: They could have simply continued to charge for everything and paid sales taxes as well; if they had, they'd still be riding high on the hog and wouldn't be making all these cost cutting changes that are simply driving more Dubs away
This is spot on. I remember when they first changed the payment method. I was still a good Dub at the time, but I immediately thought '..They're going to be sorry they did this!' Witnesses are notoriously cheap and very few with 'voluntarily' pay for something if they can get it for free. And so it has proven with the "donation" arrangement for the literature. This bonehead idea, along with their brainiac decision to get rid of Food Services at the assemblies (which paid for a great portion of costs), really did a number on them financially and it's never been the same.
TMS said: I think the new "donation arrangement" in light of the Swaggert court case was the beginnning of current financial decline for the Watchtower. It was a poorly thought out decision
It was.....I can't imagine what the hell they were thinking with they implemented this "new light".
Gumbers said: Mary.....great minds think alike I looked at your thread and noticed my post on that thread....I haven't changed a bit!
I read your posting there too.......looks like the Gumbaby owes me 20 bucks......
Luna said: I still have some pity for these people. They are going to be finding out right quick that they've been living a fantasy.
I agree.......It's true that alot of them probably looked down their noses at us, but when I hear of the elderly ones getting kicked out of their home with virtually no training, no savings, no retirement fund or health insurance, I can't help but feel for them. I don't know if they're downsizing here at the Canadian Bethel.....if they are, those that are being asked to leave will have it a bit better than their American brethren.....Here, they still have full Health Coverage, and when they turn 65, they'll collect the Old Age Pension, plus they can apply for the subsidy.......they'll have about $1,000 - $1,100 a month to live on.....plus, once you turn 65 up here, all your prescription drugs are paid for by the government.......I'm not sure what the practice is in the States. Can someone fill me in?
The question on my mind is: What were these downsized people doing at Bethel?
The Society has been quietly trimming people and downsizing for quite some time. Suddenly, they announce a big layoff
that may involve a thousand people.
Were these people just wandering in the halls? Did they have any work to do? More importantly, did they have any
vital functions that could damage the Society by their absence?
Here's the critical point I wonder about: the Watchtower has long suffered from a sort of "brain drain" or lack of highly skilled
people to run things in an increasingly technological age. If you doubt this, take a good look at the poor quality of their writing
and research - or ask yourself why they have to send Bethelites to college or law school or why outside consultants sometimes
leave Bethel shaking their heads in disbelief.
This petty empire is stretched across the globe in an incredibly thin fashion. The loss of a few vital people could
cripple them permanently, especially in legal matters.
metatron
Hi Mary -
Edvard Munch's "The Scream". Somehow I thought it might be a Van Gogh. I couldn't see the ladie's face screaming. I though it was a lady walking across a bridge!!
Won't be long and you'll feel like changing it to a peaceful picture. I suggest going to art.com for wonderful pics for avatars. That's where I got mine.
Best to you Mary during this hard time.
Love,
Juni (a big hug)
Mary you're a very caring person worrying about these old timers.
Here are the facts in the US brought to you by Blondie (the one who knows and sees all!)
Phil, that is the sad part about older JWs leaving Bethel, they have not paid into social security nor has the WTS paid in for their "employees."
They will have to work 10 years total and pay in to qualify for retirement benefits based on their 3 highest years of salary. Some people paid in for a few years before they went into Bethel but at a lower salary. That is why Ed Dunlap, registrar of Gilead School, had to work several years into his 70's hanging wallpaper...no social security benefits.
Blondie
So the ones in Canada have the benefit. We kick our seniors to the curb! Hopefully the CIA isn't monitoring my posts. If you don't ever hear from me again you'll know why. Please come and visit me in prison, will ya? And don't forget the and (margritas)
Juni
