Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD

by Londo111 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the Bible. The Branch Davidians and other cults used Revelation with deadly results. Fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the Antichrist and his One World Government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation. After the Tribulation and a literal 1000 year reign, the literal heaven and earth is destroyed and replaced by another. A city 1500 miles high then lands itself on this new planet. All nonfundamentalists get tormented in a lake of fire for all eternity...

    Of course, the Society's viewpoint is just as crazy. Trumpets blowing being conventions during the 1920's. All religions but theirs are Babylon the Great-thus everyone gets lumped together and all manner of hate speech is justifiable. Jesus comes and destroys seven billion people for all eternity. A literal 144000 are selected to rule over a great crowd of Jehovah's Witnesses who survive Armageddon. During this time, one could envision a scenario where a group of girl scouts who harmed nobody narrowly escape a flaming meteorite, only to die when an angel cracks open the earth underneath their bus--but after this, "New Scrolls" get printed, and the great crowd has "Bible" studies with the likes of Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin and they get a shot at an everlasting paradise.

    On the other hand, Preterism says both the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and parallel accounts) and Revelation were completely fulfilled by 70 AD. When one takes Old Testament metaphorical language, especially in regard to the 'Day of Jehovah' in 587/586 BC, then these New Testament passages make perfect sense.

    For instance, when Jesus says, "this generation", what generation is he talking about? The generation he is speaking to. Within 40 years of his crucifixion, everything in Matthew 24 finds fulfillment. Likewise, Revelation (unlike Daniel) was not to be sealed for a later time. The things in it were to "shortly take place." According to Acts 2:17, the last days were already underway. According to Acts 4:25-27, passages such as Psalm 2 began to be fulfilled, not in 1914, or any future date.

    The Wild Beast is the Roman Empire. In Revelation 17, five Kings have fallen (Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula and Claudius), one is (Nero), one is yet to arrive and be there a short while (Galba). Under Nero, a 42-month persecution broke out from 64 to 68 AD. The name Nero Caesar calculates out to 666.

    When Isaiah spoke of "new heavens and new earth" toward those who were to return in 538 BC, what did he mean? They did not go to a new planet, but upon their return, they inhabited a "new land". Therefore, this parallels what occurred in 70 AD. The "old heaven and land" pass away…first century Jerusalem, aka Babylon the Great. A New Jerusalem, along with new skies and new land replace it--the things of the Old Covenant give way to the New Covenant.

    Therefore, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, in this viewpoint, is already an accomplished fact.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    On the other hand, Preterism says both the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and parallel accounts) and Revelation were completely fulfilled by 70 AD. Therefore, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, in this viewpoint, is already an accomplished fact.

    How was Matthew 24:14 fulfilled by 70 AD?

    -Sab

  • clarity
    clarity

    Londo ... it is amazing how 'watchtower talk' sticks in our head!

    So much so, that any other explaination is not considered at all.

    Thanks for this post!

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Ok, so now what? What's next? Do you believe that we just live and die and go to heaven. What's up with everyone alive past 70 A.D ?? Just curious, not poking fun.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    That's a good question about Matthew 24:14. Let me start by quoting it: "And this glad message of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the inhabited earth, for a witness unto all the nations, - and, then, will have come, the end".

    The Greek word often translated as 'inhabited earth' is oikoumene, which means, "land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire."

    Other definitions of the word include, "the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians" and "the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire".

    The word translated as nations is ethnos, defined as "race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan)".

    So, by 70 AD, Christianity had been proclaimed to all ethnicities in the Roman world.

    Paul says at Colossians 1:23, "if also you remain in the faith, being founded and settled, and not moved away from the hope of the good news, which you heard, which was preached in all the creation that [is] under the heaven, of which I became -- I Paul -- a ministrant."

    Therefore, from his viewpoint, Matthew 24:14 was fulfilled when he penned the epistle.

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Data-dog,

    The Last Days and End were upon the Old Covenant, the Temple Age, and the land and nation (earth) associated with first century Judaism, not upon all humanity around the globe. Why is their a New Jerusalem in Revelation? It is because the Old Jerusalem was passing away. Again, this must be understood in the metaphorical language of the Old Testament.

    Yes, I believe when we die, we go to heaven. As Jesus said, "My kingdom is no part of this world."

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    So, by 70 AD, Christianity had been proclaimed to all ethnicities in the Roman world.

    If "oy-kou-men'-ay" means "the inhabited earth" that would logically include China (among other places outside the Roman Empire) which was going through their imperial era (Han Dynasty). How was the Gospel preached there?

    -Sab

  • Emery
    Emery

    From my understanding the book of Revelation was written around 90-100 AD ....it was almost excluded from the NT cannon.

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    The problem is that according to the early church fathers, Revelation was written in 96-98 CE, way after the destruction of Jerusalem. In theory, that makes the scenario in the OP quite impossible. Whether that is true or not, I do not know, but maybe Leolayla will tell us.

    However, there was a 2nd destruction of Jerusalem in or around 132 AD, and this one might foot the bill better. Around this period, the christians were thrown out of the synagogues, and the tetragrammaton disappeared from the Septuagint, if I am not mistaken.

    There is anyway no reason for a 2nd fulfilment of Revelation in our times.

    Hoffnung

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Sabastious,

    By use of that word the writer of Matthew was envisioning the Roman world around the Mediterranean…unlikely the writer had China in mind.

    Emery,

    In the Preterist view, Revelation was composed before 70. Of course, one of the main arguments against Preterism is the view that was written during the reign of Domitian.

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