Posts by mizpah

15

Jehovah's Witnesses and Lying

by ozziepost in

in their own words:.

*** w83 3/1 19 "flocking together in battle line" ***.

in carnal warfare it is essential that officers and other personnel have briefing sessions so as to be kept up-to-date on the movements on the battlefield and the latest enemy strategy.

As JWs, we all knew the concept of "theocratic strategy." Articles used examples in the Bible to justify this view. (Abraham, David, etc.) What is so shocking today is that the Watchtower organization would use it to try to cover up sexual abuse in its own organization. One would expect that "righteous men" would be at the forefront to eliminate this abuse. Instead, to save face of a faceless organization, they have done their utmost to cover and to hide this scandal... demonstrating just how "unrighteous" is the leadership of the Watchtower Society.

Fortunately, the news media and the inter-net will not let this issue go unnoticed. The public is now aware of the abuse. And the longer the Watchtower waits to deal with it the worse it becomes.

10

Visible org

by A Paduan in

i've heard that jws explain their non-links to early christianity by some sort of imagined "competition of religions" that they "won" - is this true?

or else, how else do they explain away writings like this -

"all the ancient records of the roman bishops which have been handed down to us by

mizpah

Gopher:

Thanks. I stand corrected. Perhaps, I should have used Jesus' illustration (parable) of the sower and the seed or the net and the fish. (Matthew 13) The good and bad all were gathered together until the very end when the separation would take place. And this seems to be done not on the basis of religious association.

There is a certain arrogance in religious organizations that claim primacy because of apostolic succession (Catholic) or restoration of pure Christianity (Watchtower Society). The fact is that these human organizations all fail under God's perfect standards. Good people are found in all of them. But so are the bad.

19

Jewish Christians: anybody familiar?

by wasasister in

i have recently been exposed to something new - at least to me - in the religious world.

a christian group made up of jews and non-jews who keep jewish holidays and dietary laws, yet believe in christ.

they also seem to believe in the literal interpretation of scripture, although i'm not certain this is a generally held doctrine, or just one person's view.. does anyone have experience with the jew/christian meld religion?

mizpah

My cousin is married to a Jew who converted to Christianity. They both attended a Messanic Jewish church in the Boston area. But my cousin felt like an "outsider" because she was a Gentile. Both she and her husband decided to attend another Christian church where this would not be an issue.

As I recall, the Messianic Jews still observe the traditions and holdays of the Jews. There was something of a competitive spirit among these Jewish-Christian groups.

10

Visible org

by A Paduan in

i've heard that jws explain their non-links to early christianity by some sort of imagined "competition of religions" that they "won" - is this true?

or else, how else do they explain away writings like this -

"all the ancient records of the roman bishops which have been handed down to us by

mizpah

I think the argument that the church was soon corrupted after the death of the apostles and early disciples is valid. Jesus had foretold of the "wolves" who would enter among the brothers and carry off the faith. John hints at the terrible condition of the churches by the end of the first century. The church was fragmented by the time of the early "church fathers." So, it was in their interest to establish an authority that would give them credence. What better way than to establish Rome as the church in authority and its leaders as inheritors of Peter and Paul? But ,historically, this was widely contended by the other churches and leaders even as it is today by the Orthodox believers.

That religious organizations can change within a short period of time can be seen in the history of the Watchtower itself. Look what happened to leadership of the Watchtower in the transition between Russell and Rutherford.

The Catholic church cites its line of popes as evidence of its primacy. Many have question the validity of this list...and the whole idea of "apostolic succession."

23

Tonight I am sad..very sad

by fulano in

.

i was thinking of our friends who were tortured and who died in the concentration-camps in germany and other countries during ww2..and that all in vane as i understand now.. i was thinking of the missionaries of age who are frustrated in their assignments, who see how their lives have gone with no reward and finally without a purpose.. i was thinking of bethelites of age, with no change to go back into real world.. i am glad i had the guts to leave missionary-work at the age of almost 40 and at least have the next 40 years a real life!.

mizpah

I'm encouraged that God reads the hearts of individuals. If these individuals were motivated by a desire to help their neighbors and to please God, I'm sure God notes that and takes it into consideration. The Watchtower Society is not the only religious organization that displeases God.

It's worthy to note that in the 7 churches of Revelation, many of the churches were in deplorable spiritual condition. In spite of that, individuals could still please God and gain a reward. Jesus also noted that the "wheat" and "chaff" would grow up together until the harvest time. Then, they would be separated.

We can be thankful that it is God, not men, who makes these judgments.

32

A Curiosity

by ozziepost in

back in 1972 the wtb&ts published a new translation of the bible, "the bible in living english", otherwise known as byington's translation.. who was byington?.

the publisher's note tells us that steven t byington was born in 1868 and studied languages at a university and a theological seminary.

he was a member of the congregational church in massachusetts, usa and the translation was almost his lifetime's work.

mizpah

Ozzie:

I think Hilary is right. As I recall, something was said about Byington's wife leaving the rights to the Watchtower Society so that his translation would be published and distributed as a memorial to him. But I don't remember the details.

12

The slave - Discreet?

by A Paduan in

as jws what did you understand the term "discreet" to mean ?

mizpah

I wonder why the Watchtower Society changed it from "the faithful and wise servant" to "the faithful and discreet slave?" Does anyone know when this change came about?

53

Is the WT working on any new doctrinal changes

by fearnotruth22 in

mizpah

Logansrun:

Many of the early Seventhday Adventists were involved in Miller's advent movement that predicted Christ's return in 1843/44. When they formed their own church, they kept the date as the time Christ came to the heavenly sanctuary to "tarry" before returning to earth. "Wrong event and the right time" is how they explained it away. They still look forward to the visible return of Christ in the near future. So, in a sense, they did change their views but incorporated the date.

If changes come in the Watchtower Society, it probably will be initiated by the "new guys on the block." The "annointed" at Bethel are disappearing rapidly. Those professing to be of the "other sheep" will, of necessity, have to take over more responsibility. Changes come easier for younger people who no longer have the close connection with the past.

15

What JW teachings have not changed and are believed today ???

by run dont walk in

okay, lets look back to the 1870's 1880's 1890's 1900's 1910's 1920's 1930's 1940's 1950's 1960's 1970's and even the 1980's.

wow a lot years for us to consider ....... here is my question, out of all the beliefs taught, preached and practiced, how many are still valid today ???.

i asked my family this, i said, "fine you accept new light and changes, so be it, but out of all the teachings from 1879 to 1979 , what has not changed, what has remained the same, has every single teaching taught received "new light", the bible has survived 1000's of years, but watchtower teaching last maybe 20 years, is there not any teachings that have survived the test of time.".

mizpah

Odrade:

Russell's record on treatment of women is not all that great either. Just read the account of how he treated his wife before, during and after his separation. (Apocalypse Delayed Pages 35-40)

15

What JW teachings have not changed and are believed today ???

by run dont walk in

okay, lets look back to the 1870's 1880's 1890's 1900's 1910's 1920's 1930's 1940's 1950's 1960's 1970's and even the 1980's.

wow a lot years for us to consider ....... here is my question, out of all the beliefs taught, preached and practiced, how many are still valid today ???.

i asked my family this, i said, "fine you accept new light and changes, so be it, but out of all the teachings from 1879 to 1979 , what has not changed, what has remained the same, has every single teaching taught received "new light", the bible has survived 1000's of years, but watchtower teaching last maybe 20 years, is there not any teachings that have survived the test of time.".

mizpah

NN:

You left out the doctrine on the "soul." Like many beliefs, Russell accepted the teachings of some Second Adventists on many of these doctrines. These have remained intact from his time. It is in the area of prophecy that we see many changes over the last 120 years of the Watchtower Society.