One advantate Catholic and Orthodox churches in medieval times had was their association with the rulling elite of the country and were an integral part of the government. This gave them a huge monopoly over religious lifes and with it an access to wealth of the nation. No christianity can be as successfull as the Catholic church. It also inherited structure from the Roman Empire and multiplied its wealth over the centuries. Neither the French Revolution or communism could put Roman Catholicism out of business. WT attempts to model themselves as the catholic church by diversifying its influences world wide. However, without access to national wealth like had medieval bishops and abbots, they will never achieve the same success.
Posts by kaik
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19C'mon Analysts- The game is on! Let's play.
by Hairtrigger inas has been established on this forum many times over, the wtbs/ gb /fds is aping the policies of the catholic church in almost every detail.
the catholic church owns prime property all around the world given its supreme standing in the dark ages and after.
does the wbts have a bigger game plan in mind ?
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Were you surprised when you went in service for the first time....
by Muddy Waters inwere you surprised when you went in service for the first time (this question is prob for those who were not born-in) --.
when i first had the "privilege" of going in field service as an unbaptized publisher, i remember feeling so surprised at everybody's apparent slowness.
all the talks at the kh emphasized how we were in the last days, doing a life saving, critical, never to be repeated, work, etc., yet you get in the car group and ignore people walking right by or coming toward the car, and then slowly walk from house to house.
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kaik
I never went with parents, but with other elders. We usually did hiking tour through the countryside, talked about bible, and religious things. We had only handfull of WT publication and JW was in illegality. So we had to share. JW would sent elders into area that did not had any organization. There were cities which did not had anyone. We did not knock on the door, but usually chatted with people along the way. I heard horror stories of elders who were chased by gang of gypsies, got beaten up, were arrested by police for distributing illegal publications (they were looked upon as heroes), bitten by dogs..
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CONGREGATION FLEECING RESULTS?
by The Searcher inhow much did your congregation and its bank account get taken for?
share your horror story!.
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kaik
Crazyguy, you are probably correct on that one. I wonder where these letters were sent. If countries have convertible currency like Euros, franks, pounds, and dollars, the cash can be easily transferred into WT world fund. I do not recall we got money when we build our first KH 20 years ago. It was expected that we save money for it and we in the locality fund it. People were really donating and saved enough within four to five years. It is possible that branch office gave some money, but I am not aware of it. I do remember that the branch was selecting the site and gave advice on overall appearance of the KH. Unfortunatelly, I do not talk to anyone anymore in my old KH. I will ask my relatives when I will see them this summer.
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The dumest thing an elder ever said to me..
by new hope and happiness inconversation with an elder...i said " did you watch due south yesterday" and he said " ive got far more important things to do".
i mean that comment of his got me to thinking and wondering, and made me see he was missing out on living..and i think that comment was the straw that broke this boys faith, and started my i dont want to be a witness anymore.
kind of wierd how a simple question opened my eyes.. and now as i write this i am watching " the rebel" a 1950s western series, and its great and its even better my 9 year old is watching with me..and there is nothing more important than being happy.. .
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kaik
In the 1980's I was with an elder in the field service. When I walked back to his house, I noticed how ruined it was. The roof was caved in and leaking, the house was not repainted since WWI, yard was overgrown, etc. Next to his house was a young family that were just fixing their house. After breaf conversation, the homeowner mentioned he has some other improvement to do inside. My elder responded sarcastically that if he has enough time to do all that before Armageddon catches up with him. That was 30 years ago! Anyway, I was walking through the neighborhood last year, and saw the elder house- it was still a ruin. Poor guy is waiting for 30 years, probably hoping inheriting his neighbor house.
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CONGREGATION FLEECING RESULTS?
by The Searcher inhow much did your congregation and its bank account get taken for?
share your horror story!.
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kaik
JWDaughter, in my native country which was after the fall of communism rather developing country, we build KH from our local funds. I used to donate every week. After JW went from illegality, we did not have KH, we had to rent various public spaces like school auditorium. We had collection box that was used to fund our first KH building. We put money every week into it so we can build our own first KH. This was done after several years in savings. I do not remember any monies from bethel that would fund the KH; it is possible they were donated, but I left JW around the time. I only remember that we got advise on the look and the size of the KH. The local congregation workforce, skills, and money built the building (or rather renovated the purchased ruin).
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You Americans are the friendliest people I've met
by not bitter in........ well at least the ones i encountered on my recent holiday to orlando.
now i know that its a tourist destintion so everyone working in the hotels and parks are on their best behaviour.
but i have been to tourist towns here in the uk and europe but not one is on a par with you guys.. my husband and i haven't stopped talking about to anyone that wants to listen.
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kaik
Americans are generally friendlier than Europeans or East Asians, but there is also variations. I lived in NYC and did not find Newyorkers too friendly, yet I am married to one. People in the South are nice, but also I had observed selective friendliness. California is chapter on its own, where people can rude and friendly everywhere. In general everywhere in the world, people from large cities are not friendly and this is the same what I had observed from Los Angeles to New York, Montreal, Paris, Berlin, Prague, to Kiev. When I was in French countryside, people were very nice and helpfull. The same is valid for UK and Germany where people in small cities are very nice. I find the nicest people in USA in Pacific Northeast in Seattle and Midwest. The rudest and worst experience I had in former USSR and Yugoslavia. I do not think that Slavic people are generally friendly and nice to each other. The nicest people I had run into Europe were Italians.
Florida is beautifull for visit. I was there for week. I am not sure if I could live there although, I do not know anyone there. Been in Florida from Fernandina Beach to Key West and I love it. If anyone goes to Keys make visit to Fort Jefferson. It is worth it.
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Sign of the Time of the End ---> Armagaddon
by Waiting4TheKingdom infive events to come and to watch for:.
1 world leaders say peace and security!
- they "say" this but may not fully "achieve" this.
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kaik
Johnamos, what is your point? Where do you get that people on JWN do not read bible. 2/3 of humanity does not share a belief that bible is a word of God. Jews do not care what is written in NT, it is not part of their holy text. Jews do not believe that Jesus was/is Messiah. Whatever is written in Revelation is absolutely irrelevant to their faith and beliefs. Before you start to preach, please be also aware what Judaism say about Satan (and Gog/Magog), which is completely different from Christianity. You cites Joel, yet you use Christian beliefs invented by Catholic church centuries after the death of Jesus. Do you besides bible read anything else? It does not show it.
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CONGREGATION FLEECING RESULTS?
by The Searcher inhow much did your congregation and its bank account get taken for?
share your horror story!.
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kaik
My parents told me that they were asked to donate 30000 CZ crowns (1USD = 20CZK) per month to support their [closed] branch office. I do not talk to my cousins who are elders, but I can ask my siblings and aunts how much they were asked in their KH.
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The WT Isn't Going Away (sorry got long)
by LostGeneration ini've seen more threads and comments in the last week about the "demise of the wt" than in some time.
several were on threads about the donation arrangement and how its going to backfire in some way on the wt.
oh and the lone elder who was pissed in some sort of passive-aggresive manner about it when he presented the resolution.
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kaik
kneehigh, I did not say that they collect 2.2bl, but theoretically they could. Oubliette had good calculation on this topics two weeks ago. I was told by my parents and my siblings (both attending different KH) that their KH pledged 30000 CZ crowns per month (1 USD = 20 CZ). Their KH is long paid off since 1990's. Except utilities and some maintenance, which can be less than 1000 crowns per month, the rest of the money goes out into mother. Some people donate up to 100 dollars equivallent per month. If there is 250 congregation in Czech Republic, you can do the math. I will ask my relatives in Slovakia how much they donate in Euros. I only pointed out that Czech Republic is not rich nor poor country; it is in middle income bracket like Portugal or Greece. If WT is capable to get such money from these countries where average incomes are around 1000-1500 per month per individual, how much money they get from wealthier states like Germany, UK, or Canada.
Not sure how is the demographic world wide. In CZ based on the census from 2011 average age for JW is 38. The age would be much higher if the WT did not kick 1/6 of its members there in the 1990's due flip flopping doctrine on alternative military service. Between 1992-1996 majority of males who were avoiding draft and were not successfull to get into industry waving draft like mines could do civic service for two years in hospice or elsewhere. These people were kicked off in mass. It was actually the largest cleansing of JW in CZ republic, much larger than during A.H., Stalin showtrials in 1951, or JW split there in 1968.
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Anyone recall asemblies actually being fun?
by tim hooper inwhen i was a wee lad, there was a carnival atmosphere at assemblies as this old footage will show:.
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http://www.britishpathe.com/video/witnesses-baptised/query/jehovahs+witnesses.
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kaik
Strahov 1991 was fun into certain degree. It was also the most ethustiastic time for me in JW organization. However, it was too long, too hot, elders constantly monitored with whom we talked to and way. I got reprimented for taking my shirt off and was there in white t-short. I was sweating. Lines into WC were long, etc. One day event would be just fine. Three days sitting on stadium...it was painfull (at least to me).
Yeah and no beer served. But evening we used to go to pub to get some beer.