Posts by undercover

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

*8 billion people. Tried to edit, but it wouldn't take

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

Where, exactly, does the Bible say that government(s) will turn on religion? I mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from Revelation as such?

With one megalomaniac leading the GOP race for nomination to vie for President of the USA, I've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three. And not just among liberals and Democrats - but also among some JWs.

I've heard more than once, something like this, 'if he wins, this may be the start of government turning on religion' or similar. I've heard all the Hitler comparisons, and yea, he's scary to a degree, but Hitler, not hardly. So if the WT god didn't come to the rescue his 'true worshipers' in WWII, why would the prospect of a TV reality star getting headlines give them cause to think that now he might act? Sure, I hate reality TV as much as the next fellow, but not enough to destroy 8 million people.

But, OTOH, when the election is over, and someone else is in office, we can sit back and chuckle as the Armageddon is once again put back on hold, and dubs can go back to worrying about their field service hours, and where to stop for break...

38

Fading is never 100% successful is it?

by nicolaou in

mum phoned last night to see how we all are.

after fifteen years away from meetings and my old jw life you'd think my fade could be called 'successful' and for the most part it is.

.. my resentment at being lied to and having wasted over thirty years of my life has left me like a glass of water full to the brim, it only takes a tap to make a mess.

undercover

I don't think you're 100% out of it, even if you DFd or DAd...if you have family still involved.

I'm faded, and have experiences similar to yours from time to time. I have siblings who are DFd, and they from time to time get dragged into arguments and confrontations.

I have a DFd friend, who has cut off all ties with anything related to JW, but yet still has family active in the faith, and on occasion has to endure their meddling (however well intentioned on their part it may be).

I think this is true of anyone who has left a controlling atmosphere, be it religious, secular, or parental. You know what you know, you've put it behind you, yet from time to time you are reminded of the past, and have to deal with it in the present.

13

Cuban Cigars

by OnTheWayOut in

so mrs. otwo and i see something on television about cuban cigars.

she asks me if they are allowed into the united states.

i told her that i believe there is a softening of the rules, but they are still difficult to get.

undercover

Cognitive dissonance is strong in this one...

I know the feeling. One day my wife is as 'worldly' as any of our 'worldly' neighbors or family. It's almost as if she has finally decided that JWs are a crank religion. Then the next day, some comment about the 'last days' or prophecy being fulfilled, or some other JW tainted thinkspeak.

161

I am leaving the JW's . I am alone and scared. Advice and help needed please

by scared and lonely in

i am sorry that on my first post i am asking for help and advice but i am at my wits end.

i have been brought up a witness all my life and it is all i know.

i am an ex-elder and pioneer and i don't know anybody outside of the congregation.. i have been unhappy for so long and wanted to leave.

undercover

I have been unhappy for so long and wanted to leave. I tried to slip away but they would't have it and now that I have expressed doubts they are pushing for me to disassociate myself because they think I am apostate which I am not.

I've got news for you... yes, you are an apostate. Or at least well on your way to being one.

But don't let that bother you. It's just a word. It's a word that some religions use to keep fear instilled in their members, but in the end it doesn't really mean anything harmful will come to you. Once you come to terms with having been a member of a cult religion and you have fully escaped, then being called an apostate by current members of the cult will be a badge of honor to some degree. Embrace it and wear it with pride.

29

List of reasons why the witnesses are wrong.

by atomant in

l thought it might be a good idea to have a quick reference post to remind people of the faults within the jw org.what do others think.

?

undercover

WT doctrine: Adam created 6,000 years ago. Noah's world wide flood happened 4,000 years ago (give or take a few hundred).

Science: evidence shows man has been around far far longer than 6,000 years

Science: no evidence for a world wide flood.

If you can't get out of the first few chapters of Genesis with the doctrine intact, what's the point of going any further?

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

undercover

I remember as a teenager, way back in the 70s, during the era that the earth shattering news erupted that rock bands were putting subliminal lyrics into their songs, we had a circuit assembly that had a part on music.

The speaker railed against all modern pop music, be it rock, soul, disco, even the standards like Sinatra. He specifically mentioned the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Queen and other bands that supposedly had subliminal messages in them. So subliminal you could hear them if you played the record backwards. I mean, duh, how subliminal is it, if it you can hear it just playing the record different...but I digress.

While the elder ranted and raved about the evils of demonic music us youths were being led astray by, someone - I never figured out how it started, but we assumed it was someone connected to the program - started passing out lists of popular music acts/personalities, complete with reasons why 'true Christians' would not own records by these artists, or even listen to their music on the radio.

All your tops of the pops were there: Beatles - drugs, sex, Maharishi; Stones - drugs, sex, sympathy for the devil; Zeppelin - drugs, sex, rocknroll; Doors - drugs, demonism; Queen: homosexuality

But also listed were less conspicuous acts: Eagles - demonism (Hotel Calif); Earth, Wind & Fire - spiritism; and then there were singer/songwriters, like Paul Simon, Jimmy Buffett, and even James Taylor. Why James Taylor, you ask? Well...I'll tell ya, and I ain't makin this shit up... young Mr. Taylor spent time in a mental health hospital. And you know what that means, of course. It's a doorway to spiritism and demonism. Yes, Fire and Rain is about demons and Country Road is actually the Highway to Hell. Carolina in his mind is obviously a demon named Carolina.

Seriously, someone thought that because James Taylor sought out help, that his music was inspired by demons, and therefore unfit for Christians. And my parents bought it up, and made us kids purge our record collections.

Stupid cult.

32

What are the biggest holes in the ransom sacrifice?

by Half banana in

how honest are the proponents of jesus as the ransom sacrifice?.

curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?.

undercover

The biggest hole?

Jesus ransom was to buy back what Adam lost, correct?

You know, the Adam that was created a mere 6,000 years ago, despite the fact that the history of man goes back way before Adam would have shown up on the scene.

So Jesus died for nothing. Adam wasn't the first man, he actually didn't exist. The story of Adam is a parable at best. A fable, a myth. The doctrine of Jesus ransom sacrifice is based on parables of people that didn't exist. Once you realize that, Jesus' death as a ransom sacrifice makes absolutely zero sense. Hows that for a big ole hole?

79

The really cool feeling of community within JWs

by Phaedra in

i remember going out with other jws after the memorial.. small gatherings.. picnics at some local landmark.. the feeling of closeness, camaraderie, friendship with like minded people you could trust.. haven't experienced it since i left.. really miss that..

undercover

The feeling of closeness, camaraderie, friendship with like minded people you could trust.

Haven't read all the replies, but the last part of this sentence stood out. "...people you could trust"

Yes, there was closeness (within in some cliques), camaraderie and friendship with like minded people. But that's true in most social situations, whether it's church, school, work, the neighborhood bar.

The last part is debatable. Trust. You can't trust most people in the KH. The ones that aren't always ratting you out to elders for every little infraction are either jealous of anything you do or have, or if they're the haves, instead of the havenots, they rub it in your face.

Not true of all JWs, but common enough that most dubs have to watch what they say, watch what they do, who sees them in public, etc etc.

I learned to keep my life so private that most people really never knew me. I couldn't trust em. And when I slipped up and trusted someone, it lead to my undoing. I had friends, but I learned somehow to keep most of them at arm's length.

These people are not your friends. The fact that since you left, no matter the circumstance, and they are no longer your friends proves that.

38

Re: New Songs for Memorial

by pixel in

to all congregations.

re: new songs for memorial.

dear brothers:.

undercover

I was getting ready to call 'BS' on this until I saw the PDFs uploaded from a second source.

I mean, seriously... who needs a paragraph of instructions, with bullet points, on how to study up on a new church hymn?

How can we individually learn the new songs? When the music, lyrics, and choral arrangements
become available in your language on jw.org or JW Broadcasting, follow these four
steps: (1) Listen repeatedly to the music or choral renditions of the songs until you know them
well. (2) Analyze the lyrics, and try to memorize them. (3) Sing the melody together with the lyrics
until you have mastered each song. (4) Rehearse the new songs a few times during your Family
Worship session until your family is comfortable with them.

"Listen repeatedly..." Is there subliminal message when sung out loud? Did the WTS learn something from Led Zeppelin, KISS, Queen, and the Beatles? Will dubs start listening to their Kingdom Melodies backwards, looking for hidden messages?

"...memorize..." Why? The words are written down, just read em. Unless, of course, there's some kind of indoctrination going on with repeating the same words over and over by memory. Naahhh... the WTS would never do that {insert roll eyes thingy here}

"Rehearse during Family Worship..." Like dubs don't have enough problems keeping young ones in 'the truth'. This is sure to cure that ailment. Just sit around and sing Kingdom Melodies as a family. The little kiddies will just be so encouraged to stay in Jah's service. {insert heavy sarcasm here}