Posts by undercover

28

Your body of elders - were they liberal, conservative or moderate?

by minimus in

jw
friends

in my first kingdom hall, the elders were ultra conservative.

our presiding overseer used to be a zone overseer.

the second hall i was in was moderate.

undercover

I was in several congregations over the years, and I saw a wide variety of elders. Nazi control freaks, ex-hippie full of mercy types, middle of the road, but still obeying the WTS. In the end, it didn't really matter. As long as they remained an elder, they were part of the machine. Unless they stepped down, they were not to be wholly trusted. Those that meant well, but never stepped down, got stepped on. I saw one good man after another whither under the onslaught of the jerks and lackeys to the WTS.

Which reminds me... I ran into a guy I grew up with in the JW religion (started to say 'the truth' - old habits die hard). I asked about his family, and he told me that his father, an uber-zealous, by-the-book, hard-nosed, power hungry, WT appointed trouble shooter in our congregation at the time, had died just a few weeks prior. I found myself not feeling anything. Not sadness, not grief, but not joy, or glee either. It was as if I had read a stranger's obit in the newspaper.

The longer I'm out, the less I care about most JWs I knew for years, or even decades, unless it was someone I was close to, or actually saw some good in. Most of the ones that are dying off now mean little to nothing to me...especially elders and Bethel lifers. I'm either an insensitive, heartless clod, or - I'm learning to put it all behind me, and move on with a new life. Not sure yet...

23

Is there anything about the JW's you still like?

by donny in

some jw's on various postingshave asked me was there anything about the jw's i still agree with.

of course there are some things i agree with and some i partially do.

1. political involvement - while i do not agree with totally avoiding anything associated with politics, i agree that many of todays churches are way too involved in trying to sway their constituents beliefs.

undercover

Political Involvement - while I do not agree with totally avoiding anything associated with politics, I agree that many of todays churches are way too involved in trying to sway their constituents beliefs. After I left the JW's and attended "trad...itional" churches, I grew tired of the ones who kept telling me that if I didn't vote Republican I would be voting against God which is ridiculous.

There was a time when I felt similarly. But... having seen how the WTS uses legal means to prevent themselves from answering for their culpability in crimes committed by their elders and followers (see Barbara Anderson's links to the investigative reporting on the WTS and child abuse), I don't even give them credit for that anymore. It's one thing to preach being non-political, it's another to preach it, yet use the court system to prevent prosecution, or preserve their constitutional rights, while denying their members those same rights (freedom of religion).

The very least amount of credit you can give them is for refusing to fight in wars. And even that is debatable, depending on the enemy and the war that they're trying to avoid.

13

WALKING DEAD fans - Was that a JW at the very end of the latest episode?

by Zoos in

did you see the last episode?

that nicely dressed, freshly-shaven young man that came out from behind the trees at the very end and said:.

i didn't mean to interrupt.

undercover

Naw.... if Aaron had been a JW, he, or his group, wouldn't have left bottled water in the road for Rick & Co. Instead, there would have been a JW cart full of literature... because as we all know, only through the pages of WT literature can you get life's water free...

18

Conversation with a “Genius" JW

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

this is a real conversation i had with a jw friend last night.

several times previously he claimed to be a certified genius, having supposedly passed the mensa test.... .

me: so what do you think about jws condoning the idea that dinosaurs could have lived with humans?.

undercover

As far as JWs go, that's about genius level.

Seriously though, intelligence doesn't mean much when you have a large blind spot of faith interfering with your critical thinking skills. I've known some really smart, I mean, up there in the brain department smart, JWs that were just as zealous in JWism as the most simple minded, uneducated, and illiterate publisher in the congregation. On the other hand, I've known average JWs with average intelligence, and little formal education, realize that the WTS was BS, and escaped.

21

Noah preached 100-120 years and no followers. What the hell was he preaching?

by James Mixon in

let me see if i have this straight.

we are to believe noah preached over a 100 years with 0 effect.. the bible records that lamech, noah's father had sons and daughter's but the number is not included.

to have a plural number of brothers and sisters, there would be at least four siblings, two brothers and two sisters.. my folks had 6 kids and 90 years later there are over 100 family members.. some say based on what's written in gen.6:3, noah preached anywhere between 100-120 years.

undercover

Noah wasn't commissioned to preach. Nowhere in the account does it say he was to preach. He was commissioned to build an ark. And that's taking the account as it's written, and ignoring the silliness of the entire story.

The idea of Noah being a preacher came later.

17

Did you go to your prom or belong to a "worldly" club while you were a witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i didn't go to the prom but i did belong to a chess club until the awake article said it was a war game and suggested true christians wouldn't play such a game.

undercover

No proms, no dances, no clubs, no sports, no pep rallies, no school concerts, no voting in class elections, no nuthin...

...and people wondered why I hated school, and couldn't wait to graduate...

11

"Laughter trumps fear every time" - another method to chip away at WT's authority?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

saw this article on slate.. it got me thinking - the wts are certainly providing lots of ammunition for spoofing.

talks about tight pants, singing trolleys, rubber faced buffoonery from lett...... what if we start encouraging jws to laugh at their leadership, instead of kowtowing in reverential awe?.

from the article:.

undercover

I think there's some truth in that. Going by personal experience...once you get someone to irreverently laugh at something once held sacred, they tend to not have the reservations of being offended, or abstaining from ridiculing the absurd or ridiculous.

The problem is getting them to aim that irreverence at something a little more indoctrinated into their personality, such as the JW religion, it's silly traditions, indefensible doctrine, fellow members, or it's authority figures. But, once that seal is broken, then it opens up the potential for them to see the futility of it all. But it's baby steps. It won't happen overnight.

26

Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 in

for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and then took him back.

that's not love, its a big legal loophole.

people have technically died in the past, and by the standards of diagnosing death in bible times you could definitely beat 48 hrs and return.

undercover

It's a fairy tale. Fairy tales usually have plot holes.

You didn't really think Neo was resurrected just because Trinity told him to get back up, now did you?

54

Mom says, "CO says there's only 15 years left!"

by Separation of Powers in

i don't typically hear from my mom often, but i tell you, over the past couple of weeks, i have heard from her several times.

you heard the comment about "our way of worship will be altered" and thank you for your posts by the way....but yesterday, she calls and is asking about the kids and then, in typical jw fashion mind you, says:.

"you know, you should really get back to meetings.

undercover

I remember a brother at my old hall saying 'the end is so close we can smell it'

My F-I-L, same guy who can entertain the two concepts of 'the end' any time, and planning retirement, once said, quoting their CO, 'we're no longer in the last days... we're in the last hours'. Oh yeah, that was several years ago. Hours just drag on and on, when you're in expectation of something...

54

Mom says, "CO says there's only 15 years left!"

by Separation of Powers in

i don't typically hear from my mom often, but i tell you, over the past couple of weeks, i have heard from her several times.

you heard the comment about "our way of worship will be altered" and thank you for your posts by the way....but yesterday, she calls and is asking about the kids and then, in typical jw fashion mind you, says:.

"you know, you should really get back to meetings.

undercover

When I was young, an embarrassing number of decades ago, the standard line was that "this system of things can't go on another 5 years!"

I remember my father-in-law saying almost word for word the same thing. Two sentences later he was talking about his retirement plans...10 years in the future. For JWs, that is typical cognitive dissonance. Repeating the mantra as heard from the WTS over and over and over, yet managing to overcome that notion when dealing with personal plans.

I remember being 10 years old KNOWING that I would never graduate high school being told that the end was SO CLOSE!

I remember that as well...and I've got a decade plus on you. I remember as an early teen, worrying about the system lasting longing enough to get my driver's license and a car, graduating high school, getting laid ... the list goes on. Here I am staring retirement in the face with no real retirement plan. Never went to college, never planned a career, never worried about pensions or 401Ks until I finally woke up to the lie I was in.